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Old August 29, 2012, 10:34 AM   #26
spacecoast
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No matter, the nay sayers are the ones who are clearly wrong and it gets amusing to read their stories about how they don't need it so no one needs it.
Maybe they ought to measure their chambers.
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Old August 29, 2012, 04:52 PM   #27
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Not in my experience with loading lead cast rounds. I believe in the old thinking as to just how did so many millions of rounds were reloaded before Lee dreamed up this die.
The same way they were loaded before progressive presses, powder cop die, lock out die and many other things we have today were made.
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Old August 29, 2012, 05:57 PM   #28
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The same way they were loaded before progressive presses, powder cop die, lock out die and many other things we have today were made
I'll stick to the way I load all my handgun cartridges. As stated I have no need for the Lee FCD in straight walled cases, if you see a need, go for it, or adjust your loading dies so you also can reload without it.

BTW I do not use or own a progressive press, or powder cop die, or a lock out die. I also have no problem reloading, but then I only have 50 plus years of reloading experience.

The bigest holdup I have regarding shooting is the gas expense to and from the range. I refuse to spend 2 to 3 hundred bucks a month in gas expense to and from the range. Those dollars are better spent in better ways than supporting the oil companies. Just my 2 cents.
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Old August 29, 2012, 06:32 PM   #29
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A couple of thoughts, what did the ammunition factory's use before this lee die??????

They have said in the ad's that the workmanship is put inside the die sets and they don't spend time/money on outside finishing, what I would like to know is how come so many reloaders have to send the dies back for tweeking or adjustment.

Never sent back a Lyman, Hornady, RCBS, or Redding dies.

jcwit we are in the same boat 50 years reloading and equipment just as old. Maybe we should run out and buy all new stuff so we can also send back dies or ream/sand/polish to make the stuff work better.

I thought I was buying quality tooling -- guess I was right!!!!
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Old August 29, 2012, 08:18 PM   #30
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I'll stick to the way I load all my handgun cartridges. As stated I have no need for the Lee FCD in straight walled cases, if you see a need, go for it, or adjust your loading dies so you also can reload without it.
I don't need to adjust my dies they make perfectly good ammo the way they are. I use the FCD as a case gauge and a crimp die. The problem is some people aren't open minded enough to realize the FCD has other uses besides fixing bad ammo.
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Old August 29, 2012, 08:34 PM   #31
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The problem is some people aren't open minded enough to realize the FCD has other uses besides fixing bad ammo.
Open minded enough, yup, and fully aware of the other uses, still have no need to use one, for any reason. Got one in 45 ACP sitting in a drawer with a tag on it identifying what it is. Some day the kids will find it and wonder what Dad had this for.
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Old August 29, 2012, 09:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
A couple of thoughts, what did the ammunition factory's use before this lee die??????
The did things differently. And what makes you think they did not (and do not still) use something similar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
They have said in the ad's that the workmanship is put inside the die sets and they don't spend time/money on outside finishing, what I would like to know is how come so many reloaders have to send the dies back for tweeking or adjustment.
Just how many reloaders have to send the dies back for tweeking or adjustment, by brand as a percentage of dies sold?
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Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
jcwit we are in the same boat 50 years reloading and equipment just as old. Maybe we should run out and buy all new stuff so we can also send back dies or ream/sand/polish to make the stuff work better.
Sarcasm begets sarcasm.
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Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
Never sent back a Lyman, Hornady, RCBS, or Redding dies.
I have never wanted to send any dies back, Redding, RCBS, Lyman or Lee (I don't own any Hornady)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
I thought I was buying quality tooling -- guess I was right!!!!
Of course you were right. There are VERY FEW companies making bad reloading tools. Lee, Hornady, Redding, RCBS, Dillon, etc. If their product line was bad, they would not be in the marketplace for long.

I contend that Lee buyers are similarly right as buyers of Dillon, Hornady, Lyman, RCBS or any others.

I also contend that touting or decrying an entire product line is pointless.

Now, let's get to the point of the thread: What good is the Lee FCD? What does it give us that we did not have 50 years ago?

1) a) Most significant is that it separates the crimping from the seating. This is useful for getting a good, clean, strong crimp and also b) makes adjusting the dies easier. If that is pandering to the laziness in us, so be it. It is also catering to our desire for efficiency and precision.

2) The post-sizing ensures fit into any SAAMI-spec chamber and relieves the need for the case gauge step that was useful in times past. Either tool will work and it is a matter of personal choice which any individual handloader prefers. I will not deny you your choice any more than you would deny me mine (nor denigrate that choice).

3) The post-sizing may cure a number of ills. a) Some of them caused by poor loading technique and b) some of them caused by poorly dimensioned components or c) poorly dimensioned or poorly adjusted dies.

I agree with you that it is sad that some loaders need the third function. But that is not the fault of the manufacturer, nor does it negate the benefits of the first two functions.

I hope this little essay clears up some questions in the minds of other readers as well as gives you some food for thought. It is posted entirely in those twin hopes.

Lost Sheep

p.s. I have always been a fan of the XK Jaguars and struggled to buy one of two I found in the late 60's, a 120 and a 150, but, alas, budgetary constraints put me into a 1957 MGA. With that experience behind me, when I overhauled my handloading bench, I spared no expense in buying the best equipment money could buy that fit my loading needs. I wanted more speed than a single stage could give me, but to avoid the complexity of a progressive. So, I have a Lee Classic Turret, RCBS/Ohaus 10-10 scale, Redding Profile Crimp die for my 9mm and Lee FCDs for my revolver rounds (which I use only for certain loadings). You can see that I am eclectic in my choices of gear and how I use it. This is because I think about my choices and do not lock myself in to preconceived notions. I heartily recommend keeping an open mind (but not so open that my brain falls out, of course).

Best regards to you and yours.
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Old August 29, 2012, 09:27 PM   #33
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A couple of thoughts, what did the ammunition factory's use before this lee die??????

They have said in the ad's that the workmanship is put inside the die sets and they don't spend time/money on outside finishing, what I would like to know is how come so many reloaders have to send the dies back for tweeking or adjustment.

Never sent back a Lyman, Hornady, RCBS, or Redding dies.

jcwit we are in the same boat 50 years reloading and equipment just as old. Maybe we should run out and buy all new stuff so we can also send back dies or ream/sand/polish to make the stuff work better.

I thought I was buying quality tooling -- guess I was right!!!!
Well, first, ammunition factories dont use fired brass to make new ammo....
and second, many of the people in this thread stated they use the FCD in conjunction with their hornady dies, so the lee bashing really isnt necessary.

If you throw out every bulged case, then sure, the FCD is unnecessary. But WITH a FCD, you can use those cases in ANY gun, not just those with generous chambers.....

Without the FCD, if a piece of brass is fired in a chamber that isnt fully supported or in a gun with a super generous chamber, a normal sizing die of ANY brand often wont size it down far enough to chamber in a minimum size chamber. So yea. it will work in any ruger, but not some high performance guns or those with minimum spec chambers. I had a kel-tec PF9 with a minimum spec chamber, and used to have gun show reloads and my own reloads fail to chamber if not run through the FCD, but the exact same rounds would chamber and fire fine in my ruger p95. Bigger chamber, thats why they arent all that accurate. Reliable? yes, but thats due to the bigger chamber.

If you load range pick up brass without a FCD and have NEVER had one fail to chamber, its because your gun or guns have generous chambers, end of story.

And thats fine for you, but saying the reason we "need" the FCD is because we are doing something wrong is not only rude, but ignorant .
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:12 AM   #34
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As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:50 AM   #35
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As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
Yes. Some people have had leading problems. I found it to be a non-issue. My bullets go in the cases at 0.452" and measure 0.452" when I pull them. Order some from Midway and try them out. If you don't like them, return them for credit, of a refund. http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/catalogs/web_returns.pdf

The 45 acp die seems to get pretty good reviews.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716...cp-45-auto-rim
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:15 AM   #36
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Here is a link to Poll from Cast Boolits web site dated 2-11-11 entitled "Do you use the Lee factory Crimp Die when loading pistol cartridges with cast bullets" which shows about 2/3 use Lee FCD and 1/3 do not. The level of knowledge and experience cannot be ignored so one could safely say that the most knowledgeable reloaders prefer the Lee FCD. Some don't, most do.What seems to be common is that it "depends" on the application.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106715
The rifle FCD might have the opposite results but if you work with it, it will work with you.
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:23 AM   #37
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My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds.
If you have an oversized barrel and are using oversized cast bullets, I would stay away from a FCD (or have Lee grind you one oversized, they will do that for a nominal charge))
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:58 AM   #38
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jcwit we are in the same boat 50 years reloading and equipment just as old. Maybe we should run out and buy all new stuff so we can also send back dies or ream/sand/polish to make the stuff work better.
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Sarcasm begets sarcasm.
This post of yours Lost Sheep implys I was being sarcastic. How so?

I'm not a Lee basher, I have and use lots of Lee equipment and am really satisified with most of their products. I stell see no use for the FCD by me. Correctly adjusted dies have loaded ammo that fit all of my guns chambers, this holds true for the 25 plus semi auto handguns I reload for.

If the FCD is such a great invention wonder why non of the other manufactures haven't jumped on the bandwagon.

But hey, I you wish to use it, go for it.
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:01 AM   #39
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tkglazie
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My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds.

If you have an oversized barrel and are using oversized cast bullets, I would stay away from a FCD (or have Lee grind you one oversized, they will do that for a nominal charge))
I think you meaning an undersized barrel with an oversized bullet.

Either way the barrel should meet SAMMI specs.
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:06 AM   #40
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Here is a link to Poll from Cast Boolits web site dated 2-11-11 entitled "Do you use the Lee factory Crimp Die when loading pistol cartridges with cast bullets" which shows about 2/3 use Lee FCD and 1/3 do not. The level of knowledge and experience cannot be ignored so one could safely say that the most knowledgeable reloaders prefer the Lee FCD. Some don't, most do.What seems to be common is that it "depends" on the application.
And the opposite is true at The High Road.
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:16 AM   #41
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Aside from the obvious difference in the level of expertise of hardcore cast bullet reloaders, do you have a poll to cite, or is it your guess/opinion that TFL theoretical poll would turn out to contradict the Cast Boolits poll?

P.S. I just ran through the posts on this thread and for the posts that expressed an opinion, there are 15 for and 5 against. What a surprise, 3 to 1 in favor of the FCD and as some posts noted, their pistols did not function well without it or have been flawless with it. So it is clear that Cast Boolits = TFL when it comes to FCD. Glad you brought it up.

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Old August 30, 2012, 11:01 AM   #42
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I think you meaning an undersized barrel with an oversized bullet.
yes

Quote:
If the FCD is such a great invention wonder why non of the other manufactures haven't jumped on the bandwagon.
I have read that RCBS is working on one with not one, but two sizing rings
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Old August 30, 2012, 12:38 PM   #43
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Here is a link to Poll from Cast Boolits web site dated 2-11-11 entitled "Do you use the Lee factory Crimp Die when loading pistol cartridges with cast bullets" which shows about 2/3 use Lee FCD and 1/3 do not. The level of knowledge and experience cannot be ignored so one could safely say that the most knowledgeable reloaders prefer the Lee FCD. Some don't, most do.What seems to be common is that it "depends" on the application.
Regarding Cast Boolits out of a membership of 24,667 only 344 voted with only 216 for the FCD. Not an overwhelming margin of the folks there seem to care much one way or the other.
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Old August 30, 2012, 12:45 PM   #44
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I would have completely avoided the facts if I were you as well. Your response is a non-sequitur.
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Old August 30, 2012, 03:35 PM   #45
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I would have completely avoided the facts if I were you as well. Your response is a non-sequitur.
Well thanks a bunch dude! However my response is the fact of the matter, whether in your opinion it is of any importance or not. Just because a majority of people saying it is the thing to do in a poll does not make it something that needs to be done or used.

Many people bowed down to the golden calf also.

As stated in earlier posts of mine if you wish to use the FCD, go for it. Franky I could care less.
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Old August 30, 2012, 03:47 PM   #46
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Edited to avoid hostilities. Sometimes my sense of humor comes across as an attack.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:01 PM   #47
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jcwit- If u don't mind how do you setup your dies? I maybe doing something
wrong.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:14 PM   #48
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I use it on all but my 480 Ruger

and only cause it came with it's own crimp die

Snake
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:21 PM   #49
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When I start with a new bullet, I only shoot cast bullets that I cast and size, and lube myself, I remove the barrel from the firearm I'm reloading for. Some of my firearms need dies adjusted differently.

So anyway, I set up my seating/crimping die till I get a perfect drop of a cartridge with a seated and crimped bullet. I then make a dummy round, normally using a steel case, one of the few uses I've found for steel cases, for future reference or returning to said setting. Dummy case is numbered with specific info ie: overall lgth., powder used, charg weight, bullet used, etc.

Some rounds are seated then crimped in 2 steps, most are not, just my way of doing it, and it works for me.

Wish I could ask the National Champion but do not know how to contact him.
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Old August 30, 2012, 05:39 PM   #50
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I stell see no use for the FCD by me. Correctly adjusted dies have loaded ammo that fit all of my guns chambers,
And if you don't want to use them that's fine with us. But don't put us in the same boat as you and tell us if we adjusted our dies correctly we wouldn't need the FCD either. As I said before there are other reasons to use the FCD even if you don't see it.

Quote:
As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
You are right 357. Swagging the case down with a lead bullet wouldn't be good. If you are using oversized lead bullets I would recommend not using the FCD. In my experience in the calibers I load with lead bullets sized .001 larger than jacketed I have never had the post sizing ring do anything.
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