The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 27, 2012, 02:42 AM   #1
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,188
Good soft shooting autoloader

I have a friend who is looking for a good autoloader. (probably 12 ga)

We were out back shooting some clays with my old Win pump. (his first time shooting clays) And he was having a lot of fun. Problem is, he had to have surgery on his shoulder a few years back and after a short while, he couldn't shoot any more.

Now he seems to be in the mood for a shotgun. He is looking at autoloaders, as they tend to soak up a little recoil in the action vs a pump. Not one just for clay targets, but a good all purpose gun he can also use in a HD role if need be, and maybe even hunt... Slugs, buck, bird... seems he could get by with a Cyl, or Imp Cyl, but a removable choke and a few chokes on hand for different uses might be better.

He isn't looking for a gun that can excel in all these roles, thats impossible/impractical, but decent all around useful.

I seen Mossberg had "combo model" 930s that came with 2 barrels. One short for HD and a traditional length for field use.

CZ has a "utility" model that is 20" and comes with several chokes.

He can't spend a lot, cheaper is better unless quality suffers too much. Utilitarian is best, fancy engraving and wood stocks are not needed and add cost... aim for $600 or less if possible.

Thanks

Last edited by marine6680; August 27, 2012 at 02:50 AM.
marine6680 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 04:07 AM   #2
Slugo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2001
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,007
Randy Wakeman swears by the current Mossberg 930 12 gauge auto. Never shot one myself, but his stamp of approval is very encouraging. It's a gas gun which means it's a soft shooter. Click on his review below...

http://randywakeman.com/Review_Mossb...Autoloader.htm
__________________
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt...
Slugo is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 06:51 AM   #3
griff383
Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2011
Posts: 25
I had one a few years ago, it would cycle everything but light target loads. I am trying to see if theres anything I can do to get one to cycle the target stuff. I would love to have one again and several barrels to make it very versatile.
griff383 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 09:03 AM   #4
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
a used Remington 1100 is about the softest shooting gas gun out there due to its weight. Without knowing your friend's budget, it may or may not bear consideration
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 10:49 AM   #5
Slugo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2001
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,007
OneOzLoad is right on the money...
Slugo is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 11:10 AM   #6
dalecooper51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 312
I agree that an 1100 with a good recoil pad shooting the lightest loads that will cycle the gun is pretty low on the recoil scale.

Not inexpensive, but the Versa Max does a great job at reducing felt recoil. Mine will cycle super light 3/4 oz 12 ga loads.
dalecooper51 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 11:46 AM   #7
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,221
Gas operated semi-autos are probably the way to go ...

Before he sets his budget at $ 600 ...he should at least look at some new guns - so he can evaluate the used market:

Browning has a few offerings .....Silver Hunter, Maxus, etc...all good options.
http://www.browning.com/products/cat...1&tid=350&bg=x

Beretta has a few offerings...
http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-de...emiautomatics/

Remington 1100's or 11-87's are also good options if he finds a nice clean one.

I would put both Mossberg and CZ significantly behind either Beretta or Browning in terms of quality. It isn't just wood and engraving that drives the cost on shotguns.... its also the quality of the internals, and the steel, etc...that makes a big difference. There is a reason that Browning, Beretta and Remington have all remained strong in the semi-auto shotgun market for a long time.
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 12:20 PM   #8
JWT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,061
Another big fan of the Remington 1100. Very soft shooting. Good used ones are easy to find. The design have been around for years and they're very reliable.
JWT is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 01:09 PM   #9
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,188
I will let him know.

Yeah, quality determines price, but all things being equal, the plain version costs less than a fancier version of the same model.

He may or may not go for the used idea, will see.

Several people seem to like the CZ... it may not be up there with the big boys, but neither is the price.

Target loads will be the primary load fired.

I am sure he wants to keep the price below $600, and the lower the better unless quality suffers severely.
marine6680 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 01:28 PM   #10
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
One thing about the 1100, any gunsmith who really IS one, will know how to to work on it if necessary and parts will not be a problem
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 03:02 PM   #11
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,797
My personal preference is toward either a gas operated Beretta or an inertia operated Benelli. But with a $600 budget and soft recoil as a requirement I'd look hard at the Remington offerings.

Not exactly sure what they are selling for but a Beretta 3901 might come in under $600, if over it won't be by much.
jmr40 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 03:45 PM   #12
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,221
CZ and Mossberg ....both have very spotty reliability issues / just don't let your buddy fool himself that he is getting the same quality gun ( in terms of steel or internal parts ) from CZ or Mossberg ....that is offered from companies like Beretta, Browning or Remington...

You will find positive things said about guns like Baikal, TriStar, Stoeger, CZ, Mossberg etc on this and other forums.../ but I will tell you they are a waste of money in my opinion - especially when you could have put that money toward something else...used or new...that will last for many years.

Now you might get one that runs for 5,000 shells or more ...with no issues / or you may have cycling nightmares from day 1 ...you can't tell by just looking at them.

Like someone else said ...almost any decent shotgun - gunsmith --- can fix a Rem 1100 or 11-87 and parts are relatively easy to get at a lot of places / that can be a big deal.
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 06:20 PM   #13
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,221
There is another thread on this forum / from a shooter that has a 935 with cycling issues....???/ might want to check it out......
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 07:43 PM   #14
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,797
Just to echo BigJim. I read lots of positive things about the Mossberg 930, but very, very few people use them hard enough to say what the long term durability will be. For the most part only casual shooters even buy those The other guns have a proven track record by guys who shoot ammo by the truckload. I'm really just a casual shooter too, but don't see the point in buying an unproven gun when the cost of a proven design is often less than the cost of a case of ammo more expensive.

The 930 may prove to be a winner, but Mossberg will have a long way to go to prove to me they can build a long term reliable gun, especially their autoloaders. My experince with the 9200 wasn't pretty and they got lots of positive feedback too.
jmr40 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:05 PM   #15
Mayor Al
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Southern Indiana, Near Louisville.
Posts: 211
Since it is well known that everyone has an opinion just like they have..... well you know.

Mine is this, I have a Saiga 12 Semi-auto with the TAPCO stock kit. I can shoot it comfortably all day, then move the stock to a better position and the wife (1/2 my size in every dimension) can do the same thing (with her using lo-brass ammo). Total outlay for the gun with the new stock was $550 three years ago. I have fired well over 1500 rounds (about half of that Slugs) and am satisfied that it will shoot just as well tomorrow as it did yesterday.

I am sure you all are happy with your Shotguns, well, So am I,
Mayor Al is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:10 PM   #16
asm3686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2012
Location: Carterville IL
Posts: 115
Is have to second the rem 1100 or even one of the new 1187 sport models does a really nice job with recoil. I am personally an Italian fan and I love my benellis but I can't imagine a week long fowl hunt feeding the benelli 3 1/2s without the comfort tech stock I have a stoeger m2000 and it does decent with the recoil reducer in stock and a limb saver pad.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
asm3686 is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 09:52 PM   #17
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,188
He looked at the Remington today.

He will not be shooting a lot, 100-150 rounds in a month would probably be the limit.

He wants one that is good all around... would a 20 inch be a good all around size? Longer seems like it would be a hindrance in a HD situation, and less would not be good for hunting and clay shooting.
marine6680 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 04:04 AM   #18
TheKlawMan
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
If I were your friend I would either get a combination deal like you first posted about or a gun with a 28" barrel. Many clubs and ranges won't even allow you to shoot a short barrel shotgun. The weight of the extra 8" of barrel will help reduce felt recoil. Also check that any 20" barrel takes choke tubes or it is at least an acceptable fixed choke. It will probably have a fixe improved cylinder choke or an open cylinder (no choke). That would make trap shooting a lot less fun.
TheKlawMan is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 04:42 AM   #19
Turn2gold
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2012
Posts: 8
Not sure where you are located , but about a month ago i bought a Beautiful used Browning "Golden Clays" Sporting Clays 12 Ga 30" Ported Barrel for a great price $799 and i absolutely love it . But while i was there looking around they had several used Remington 1100's for $400-600. Ive used 1100's for many years and they are great guns ive also owned a Smith and Wesson Model 1000 and it was a very good gun too they had one there for around $500-600.

So if you live near Ft Worth , Texas Go to Cabelas they had around 100 used shotguns with reasonable prices. If you are not near Ft Worth then go to their website and find the nearest one.

Good luck in finding your friend a new gun.
Turn2gold is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 05:43 AM   #20
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 998
i don,t think you could go wrong with good used rem 1100 or 11-87 and that would be my choice, i own several of each and have had no problems at all. my clay games rem,s get cleaned at about 600 rounds and totaly taken down once a year and a new rubble gas seal replaced at that time.most loads fired are 17grs red dot with federal 209 primers, claybusters wads with 1-1/8 hard #7.5 or #8 shot. eastbank.
eastbank is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 10:20 AM   #21
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,221
Barrel length ...affects the sight plane and swing dynamics...in general a 20" barrel isn't very productive on flying targets...a barrel that short, tends to allow the shooter to "slap" at targets vs executing a smooth swing, bang, and follow-thru. About the only way to overcome barrel length is to add weight ...but on a real short barrel like 20" you'll make it nose heavy probably..which isn't good either.

In general a 26" barrel on a semi-auto makes the gun about the same overall length as an O/U with 28" barrels .....or 24" on semi = 26" on Over Under. I wouldn't recommend going under 24" on the semi-auto.

Gun weight if your buddies friend in terms of recoil / an additional lb in the gun will reduce recoil about 20% or so depending on the shell he's shooting. But having gone thru a major shoulder re-build myself...sometimes a gun much over 8 lbs ...takes its toll on my shoulder / and even rebuilt -my shoulder likes a 7 1/2 lb gun somedays a lot better than 8 or 8 1/2" ...so its a combination of all this stuff ...and what feels right to him. I should also temper my opinions with the fact that I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs and have fairly long arms ...so all of my primary guns ( O/U's even in .410 have 30" barrels ) and when it comes to a light gun like a Benelli Super Sport semi auto I went with a 30" barrel there too - to offset the light weight ( 7.2 # ) to give me better swing characteristics.

Personally - when it comes to HD - I turn to my revolvers or 1911's in handguns ..not shotguns ...even short barrels are clumsy in my view. The other issue on defense ...is you can use any shotgun for "Defense" vs sneaking thru the dark clearing rooms or a "Fighting shotgun"...so I wouldn't focus much on HD as an issue / lots of other ways to go - and better in my view.

Focus on a shotgun that feels good to him on flying targets - 26" maybe, 28" is a good happy medium, or a 30" barrel....
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 01:09 PM   #22
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,188
Yeah... he just mentioned wanting a good all purpose gun. Spending a huge chunk on just shooting clays he can't really justify... or doesn't feel he can anyway.

He lives in the country with lots of acreage, so he will be shooting on his own land, so range rules are not as big a deal. He isn't looking to compete, just have some fun.

I am going to talk to him about a combo gun, and the Remington is something he has looked at too. He is heading to the shop soon to look around at their selection. He might can have something ordered if he does not find something he likes.

He used to have several firearms, but got in some financial trouble years back and sold them. The only thing he owns right now is a 10/22... he at one time had several suitable pistols for HD.
marine6680 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 07:20 PM   #23
Jeremiah/Az
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Az.
Posts: 509
Another vote for the Remington 1100.
Jeremiah/Az is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 08:12 PM   #24
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,930
1100
shortwave is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 10:22 PM   #25
Skavatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 33
i have a Winchester 1300 pump that i use for skeet. earlier this spring i tried out a Kick-eeze recoil pad, and it works great. whichever autoloader your friend gets, have him look into the kick eeze, its the best $30 part/accessory for a shotgun, imho.
Skavatar is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12231 seconds with 7 queries