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Old August 24, 2012, 11:44 AM   #1
cajun47
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would 12 ga #4 buck and or #1 buck be a man stopper at 10 yards?

10 yards is about the max distance i would have to shoot a home invader with a 20" open choke. i like the higher pellet count in these over 00 buck. i really want to go with #4 buck but i won't if penetration is poor.


**i have other shotguns loaded with 00 buck flite control and slugs for outside/longer distance**
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Old August 24, 2012, 01:26 PM   #2
lefteye
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#1 would be a more reliable man stopper at 10 yards. See: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
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Old August 24, 2012, 01:46 PM   #3
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I assume by open choke you mean cylinder bore. Cylinder bore allows to much spread and could make an irregular pattern and put less shot on target so you might want to rethink your 'no choke' strategy.

Nothing wrong with penetration of #4 buck and it actually makes a larger wound opening because of more shot. Sometimes bigger shot isn't the total answer. Just pattern it so you know where it hits and experiment with chokes to get the best pattern but a full choke should do well. An IM choke at the very least.
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Old August 24, 2012, 01:52 PM   #4
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double post, please delete
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Last edited by Old Grump; August 24, 2012 at 01:54 PM. Reason: delete, double post
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Old August 24, 2012, 03:17 PM   #5
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Either one would be fine. Many use birdshot inside houses in fear of over penetration with buckshot and sheet rock walls. Open or cylinder choke is the most common in police shotguns and the most common in self defense/combat shotguns. You'd be surprised how little of a spread you get at 10 yards. Just remember that impr cylinder, mod and full choke have the same patter just at different ranges. An example would be a full chokes pattern at 45 yards would be about the same as an improved cylinder at 25 yards or a cylinder bore at 20 yards.
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Old August 24, 2012, 03:21 PM   #6
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I think that the OP means that he has an open cylinder barrel that doesn't accept choke tubes. If he feels that his pattern will open up too much in 10 yards, he might try Federal's flight control ammo.
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Old August 24, 2012, 06:32 PM   #7
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At 10 yards it's not going to open up much at all judging by the tests I have done and seen others do. From an 870 cyl. bore 18.5 in. bbl the No 1 buck only opens up to about a 3 in pattern at 10 yards. If you can get that pattern somewhere on their chest they will go down.
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Old August 24, 2012, 06:36 PM   #8
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Supposedly, #1 buckshot is ballistically the best size of buck.
It penetrates better then #4 and gives more destructive damage then 00.

However, #4 buckshot is good enough.
Famed Vietnam founding Navy SEAL Chief James "Patches" Watson used Navy standard #4 extensively in his two tours.
When asked if #4 buck was too light to be effective, Watson replied; "No one I ever shot complained".

#4 will be very effective inside 10 yards unless the target is wearing thick, heavy winter clothing and a leather jacket.
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Old August 24, 2012, 06:56 PM   #9
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thick clothing and body armor is why i want lots of pellets and i aim for upper chest/head area.
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Old August 24, 2012, 07:39 PM   #10
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Ten yards? Thirty feet?

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsN2AugB5pw

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEf0XplJu0
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Old August 24, 2012, 07:55 PM   #11
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I think #1 is the best balance of pellet count and size. I don't think there's a need to look any farther.
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Old August 24, 2012, 09:07 PM   #12
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Both can do the job at 30 feet; you just need to put them on target.

Follow up with a 27 pellet #4 buck load will generally be faster than with a 16 pellet #1 buck load since the #4 buck is an 1 1/4 ounce load vs. the #1 buck which is 1 1/2 ounce.

In a house at 30 feet or less, the 10 inch typical penetration of #4 buck on a frontal shot will put 27 1/4 inch holes in the boiler room. A side shot won't be very pleasant for the intruder either.
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:20 PM   #13
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Regarding the choke comments, one can't always assume that a tighter choke causes tighter patterns. There are many tests that show buckshot patterns tighter from cylinder chokes than it does from a modified or full choke.
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:48 PM   #14
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#4 will stop them just as good as #1 at that range.

I've shot #4 out of my A5 20ga at about 10yds with a cylinder choke, it went through the door and out the back of the cab of a 78 Chevy pickup, so penetration isn't a problem.
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Old August 25, 2012, 07:50 AM   #15
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I did a test between federal 00, federal 000 and some wal mart remington 3" 00. I tested at about 15 feet. The pattern from the federal 00 was really tight... Around 3" very tight pattern at that range. The federal 000 yielded a 5" pattern. The 3" magnum Remington yielded a much larger 10" pattern. I'm more comfortable with that size pattern at close range. I suspect that as the more "premium" brand, Federal has gone to great lengths to make their rounds pattern tighter. This makes them more useful over realistic hunting distances.

In reality any one of these would be a really bad day for the recipient if even half the pellets are on target. I have no experience with the lighter weight shot. I'd say get some and test it for pattern and penetration.

Last edited by 111t; August 26, 2012 at 11:48 PM.
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Old August 25, 2012, 08:09 AM   #16
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Pattern it on paper at 10 yards out of your gun and see what you get. Any buckshot load that will keep all its pellets on a sheet of notebook paper at that range should work.

If it can't manage that, I'd find a load that could.
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Old August 28, 2012, 05:04 AM   #17
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This picture is 2 shots Fired from 12 Ga 30" Barrel at about 25 feet with Rio 00 Buck using improved Cylinder choke all 18 pellets inside 12 inches the 2 big holes were the wads

Attached Images
File Type: jpg pattern.jpg (35.8 KB, 72 views)
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Old August 28, 2012, 10:28 PM   #18
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00 is probably the most popular and most used.

#4 is actually used in a few departments for certain situations.
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