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Old September 5, 2012, 03:50 PM   #76
Nanuk
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Nonsense? No that is your opinion vs my opinion.

I do not NEED to prove an opinion gained over 3 decades of LE experience. The 45 has kinetic energy and is great for knocking over steel plates and bowling pins. That hardly means it is as effective on the street as a gun that holds almost twice as much ammo in a package that is significantly smaller and lighter.

I will not dispute that a 45 ACP HST @850 FPS makes a BIG hole, but so does a 357 Sig GD @ 1450 FPS. I love that jello shot that keeps showing up, if you are going to use that data you should at least use current data, that picture must be 10 years old.

I too grew up with the myth of the mighty 45, carried one for years. If you are happy and it makes you have sweet dreams, by all means carry what you will.
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Old September 5, 2012, 07:14 PM   #77
thibaultfelix40
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OK , so if I am attacked by a large bowl of Jello I had best have a 45?
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Old September 5, 2012, 08:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
I do not NEED to prove an opinion gained over 3 decades of LE experience. The 45 has kinetic energy and is great for knocking over steel plates and bowling pins. That hardly means it is as effective on the street as a gun that holds almost twice as much ammo in a package that is significantly smaller and lighter.
What does the size and capacity of the gun have to do with whether the round is anemic or not.

A gun the size of a G19 could be made to hold a whole bunch of .22lr. That wouldn't make the 9mm more anemic than .22lr.

Are we talking about the round or the platform it's fired from?
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Old September 5, 2012, 09:13 PM   #79
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I have 2 45acp's and thats all I carry. I dont really care if there are better calibers or not. I prefer my 45's. Overrated, underrated blah,blah, blah. Who cares what internet and guncounter commando's think.
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:06 PM   #80
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OK , so if I am attacked by a large bowl of Jello I had best have a 45?
It could happen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkOfeSNsWpM
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:36 PM   #81
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I'd still carry a .45ACP, if I could afford to practice with it.
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Old September 5, 2012, 11:12 PM   #82
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That hardly means it is as effective on the street as a gun that holds almost twice as much ammo in a package that is significantly smaller and lighter.
I think that if 10+1 rounds of 45 ACP in a Glock 30 isn't sufficient firepower in a SD situation a person either can't shoot very well, or is somewhere they never should have been in the first place.

Of course the 24 ounce Glock holding 10+1 45 ACP rounds is so anemic, and under powered compared to the 36 ounce 12+1 capacity Sig 229 in 357 Sig!
That 2 extra rounds certainly makes the Glock 30 a useless, and anemic SD firearm.
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Old September 6, 2012, 07:38 AM   #83
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If the first round does not accomplish the task then having 15 more in a magazine is not going to make very much difference. Facing multiple threats alone with only a sidearm is a tactical problem, and will probably not be resolved by just having a high capacity magazine.

Last edited by drail; September 6, 2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:41 AM   #84
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I agree with nanuk that the 357 sig is a good round. But if the 45 still makes a big hole with less muzzle energy, why not? You don't lose all that much capacity in the same size gun.
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:47 AM   #85
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Much nonsense in this thread.
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Old September 6, 2012, 12:01 PM   #86
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What does the size and capacity of the gun have to do with whether the round is anemic or not.
Nothing, 750 to 850 fps does.

Quote:
Are we talking about the round or the platform it's fired from?
It kinda morphed that way, as these discussions tend to do. Nothing is black and white, every decision has factors that influence other factors. Size, weight, capacity, shootability, accuracy, ease of carry, safety etc.

Quote:
of course the 24 ounce Glock holding 10+1 45 ACP rounds is so anemic, and under powered compared to the 36 ounce 12+1 capacity Sig 229 in 357 Sig!
That 2 extra rounds certainly makes the Glock 30 a useless, and anemic SD firearm.
Compare apples to apples. That is the first time you mentioned a Glock 30, I ASSUMED you were using a cut down 1911. You still lose 100 FPS or so over a 5" bbl which the 45 cannot afford. Compare that to a Glock 33/27 using 32 mags and and you have 14 shots of 357 Sig or 40 S&W in a 20 - 21 oz package.


Quote:
If the first round does not accomplish the task then having 15 more in a magazine is not going to make very much difference. Facing multiple threats alone with only a sidearm is a tactical problem, and will probably not be resolved by just having a high capacity magazine.
Absolutely correct. That is why training and practice trump everything else. Shot placement is king, but you are unlikely to accomplish that on a wing and a prayer. Tactics and mindset are what will win the fight. The bottom line is that the bullet/caliber/platform is a very minor part of the equation, however, we obsess over it. My reason for picking the best, irregardless of emotion is I want every edge I can get. IMHO, the 45 ACP is not the cutting edge any longer. Taking a contemporary 45 and sooping it up takes a toll on the gun and is more difficult to shoot which is counter productive.

http://ncggasgun.com/barreldetails/

Now, enter this company, you want a 45 to sing?
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Old September 6, 2012, 12:50 PM   #87
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I gotta be honest I'm not a fan of the .45acp for the sole purpose that even in a large handgun you are getting only 8-12 rounds. With advancements in bullet technology today ill take a larger capacity 9mm any day, not only is it easier on followup shots but I can carry twice as much ammunition in the same package. Now in a compact I can carry 10+1 or 12+1 of 9mm where a compact .45 usually only holds 6+1. The .45acp does not have enough edge over the 9mm for me to give up double the amount of ammunition in the same size package. Now the .45 Colt, that's a round I really like.

Quote:
If the first round does not accomplish the task then having 15 more in a magazine is not going to make very much difference.
What a load of rubbish. Why don't we just outfit our military with single shot .50's then, because by your logic if the first shot doesn't stop them there doomed anyway.

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Old September 6, 2012, 01:20 PM   #88
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I feel comfortable with my 45 auto's,and so does the Bryan Texas Police dept.
They just switched from 40 cal's to 45 auto's (gotta be a reason for the switch)
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Old September 6, 2012, 01:30 PM   #89
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In a Glock 21, I get 14 rounds. In a Glock 17, I get 18 rounds. Not that big a difference. I can see the difference in subcompacts, but if all I have is a subcompact, I'm not exactly figuring in jumping into the middle of a riot. Honestly, in most everyday situations, I probably left the autoloaders at home or in my car, and have a 5 or 6 shot J-frame in my pocket.

One of the things I like about the 45 is that I can still shoot the outdated rounds for a reasonable price and get good with it. I buy the 100 round boxes of Remington 45 ACP JHPs, and shoot them quite a bit. I know if I bought $1 a round 9mm, it may be pretty effective, but I wouldn't practice as much.
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Old September 6, 2012, 03:47 PM   #90
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Compare apples to apples. That is the first time you mentioned a Glock 30, I ASSUMED you were using a cut down 1911.
I was comparing rounds, not platforms. You brought up size and capacity as if there were no other 45 ACP options than the 1911. You also obviously missed my post where I said I actually carry a 40 S&W XD40 Sub Compact. Even though I own several guns chambered in 45 ACP including a compact 1911.

Quote:
BTW, just so you know, while I do own several guns chambered in 45 ACP including a compact sized 1911, the guns I carry most often are chambered in 40 S&W, 9MM, and 380 ACP depending on weather, and the need for deep concealment.
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Old September 6, 2012, 03:51 PM   #91
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Quote. If the first round does not accomplish the task then having 15 more in a magazine is not going to make very much difference.

Don't get it. The logic of that is people would be as well of with single shot pistols. That sort of flies in the face of firearms development over the last few hundred years. Rate of fire and ability to fire the most bullets without reloading.
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Old September 6, 2012, 07:38 PM   #92
thibaultfelix40
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So if I am attacked by a bowl of Jello and shoot it with my J frame38 with a cast boolit it will be healthier. This thread has turned into bowel Jello.
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:24 PM   #93
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Don't get it. The logic of that is people would be as well of with single shot pistols. That sort of flies in the face of firearms development over the last few hundred years. Rate of fire and ability to fire the most bullets without reloading.
That's kind of taking it to extremes. The argument is more of if 6,7, or 8 rounds aren't enough you are probably in more trouble than 15 or 20 will get you out of.
Of course there are always exceptions, however rare, but as a rule most SD shootings are one or two rounds at very close range. Even in the event that more are needed, if it's more than 10 there is really something wrong!
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:50 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Grant D View Post
I feel comfortable with my 45 auto's,and so does the Bryan Texas Police dept.
They just switched from 40 cal's to 45 auto's (gotta be a reason for the switch)
Same here
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Old September 7, 2012, 01:23 AM   #95
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I didn't read the whole thread. Too much noise. My experience with the 45 ACP flies in the face of the legendary stopping power that people think it has. I think a lot of people think it's a bad a** round because it's big and fat.

The 45 does not penetrate very well. It's a big slow bullet and is defeated easily in it's standard loadings. I run kind of warm for a 45. A 225 gr LRN @ ~ 846 FPS. When I was shooting bowling pins, I stuck many of them in the front side of the pin. It blew them off the table just fine but very few penetrated the pin completely.

People go down fairly easily so that's where the stopping power reputation came from. It's good for little else. It's no bear round, it wont defeat cover, and it sure as heck isn't a 44 Mag. It's a good city pistol, that's all.
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Old September 9, 2012, 12:01 AM   #96
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Edward I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but in this case I couldn't disagree more.
Human beings are much, much,tougher than most people think. I've seen a lifetime worth of mangled human bodies. Two decades of trauma nursing.
Bears have tougher hides and stronger bones but they do not have a human brain and in my experience that is what changes everything.
I've seen people who no one had any idea why they were still alive awake and cracking jokes with the staff while we feverishly tried to keep them alive. Saw one guy who had been in unimaginable pain for 12+ hrs who held off going into shock just long enough to make it to the ER with a family member driving who was still laughing with the nurses as he finally let go and lost consciousness.
The will to live, the closest thing to real magic I've ever seen.
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Old September 9, 2012, 09:19 AM   #97
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We've reached nearly five pages, and we're no wiser than we were at the beginning. The signal/noise ratio has gotten fairly skewed, so we'll stick a fork in this one.
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