The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 6, 2012, 10:25 PM   #1
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,486
Are you doing things differently?

In light of the recent events, and some from a while back, are you doing things differently when it comes to CCW.
I used to think that I was well enough prepared by just slipping my Elsie Pea, or PM9 in a DeSantis Nemesis into my pocket. After all, most civilian self defense situations only involve one or two shots. Plus the likelihood of me ever actually needing to use the gun are somewhere below winning the lottery, and getting struck by lightning.
Now maybe time to rethink. Two mass murders by mad men in the last couple weeks, an attack on people at a political rally last year. tThe appearance of "flash mobs". Not the goofy singing and dancing ones, the violent vandalizing, and thieving ones that could turn deadly at any minute. And a "game" being played around the area by gangs of youths called the "knock out game". This is where a member or two of the group pick an innocent stranger to attack. Usually a senior citizen, or someone with a handicap. They hit them with a fist, or even worse a hard object to try and knock them out. An elderly man was killed last year in this game, and another earlier this year was left bleeding in the street.
So more often than not I now carry my Winter EDC, a Springer XD40 Subcompact with the 12 rnd extended mag in it, the 9 round mag in my pocket, and Elsie, or my Kahr CM9 in the other pocket as a bug.
Am I getting paranoid, or have things gotten ever closer to complete civil breakdown?
Have you changer your manner of CCW similarly?
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 10:31 PM   #2
Jeremiah/Az
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Az.
Posts: 509
I haven't changed anything. If I'm not in the shower or in bed, my PM9 is on me.
Jeremiah/Az is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 10:38 PM   #3
Creeper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Woooooshington
Posts: 1,797
No change... baby gun in the pocket at least, papa gun on the hip more often than not.

C
__________________
Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club
Creeper is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 10:50 PM   #4
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 2,759
I already carried a mid-size gun, so no real change here related to current events. However, I did add a sub-compact to the mix to fill the gap between a mid-size and a pocket pistol, but really just an evolution and not a response to any specific event.
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 11:04 PM   #5
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
No change here. Same old boat anchor (5" 1911). It saved my butt back in February and paid for itself (again!). Every time I think about downsizing I come up with good reasons not to. The fact that it can be deployed with one hand...is a life saver.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 11:42 PM   #6
CWKahrFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2010
Posts: 1,818
Quote:
have things gotten ever closer to complete civil breakdown?
The 1960's seemed more breakdown-y to me... And I think the crime numbers bear that out.

'Course I don't see things getting BETTER either...

I tightened up a lot of my home and self-defense routines about three years ago... related more to my changing neighborhood than the national scene. So my big SD epiphany was three years ago, but I don't attribute it to paranoia... just common sense.

I'm holding the course steady and haven't changed anything over the past few weeks.

I've read quite a few old newspapers in connection with academic research. Seems to me America has always had it's share of random crime crazies. One factor that's different now though is the way it's splashed all over us in media barrages.

But I hear you. History shows plenty of examples of how things can change quickly and dramatically. IMO, the readers of this forum are ahead of that curve... Thanks for telling about "the knockout game"...
__________________
What did Mrs. Bullet say to Mr. Bullet? ... "We're having a BeeBee!"...

IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT!
CWKahrFan is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:26 AM   #7
Water-Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2008
Location: N. Georgia
Posts: 1,574
You've heard the phrase before. Situational awareness.

All the hardware in the world won't save you if you don't have it.

Stay alert.
__________________
PROUD TO BE A VETERAN
Water-Man is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 08:36 AM   #8
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
The nationally covered events of the last couple weeks have zero bearing on me and my choice. I'm not anymore worried about going to church, a movie, or anyplace else than I was a month ago and isolated events should have no bearing on everyday life. Concentrate on the most likely things and work your way down. Mass shootings are at the bottom of the list of things I'm gonna worry about.
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:09 PM   #9
OldMarksman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 1,987
Quote:
Posted by Cheapshooter: I used to think that I was well enough prepared by just slipping my Elsie Pea, or PM9 in a DeSantis Nemesis into my pocket. After all, most civilian self defense situations only involve one or two shots.
Preparing for "most" situations is probably not very prudent from the standpoint of risk mitigation.

Quote:
Plus the likelihood of me ever actually needing to use the gun are somewhere below winning the lottery, and getting struck by lightning.
Two things:
  1. The likelihood of being stuck by lightning during one's lifetime is one in 3000. The average likelihood of someone twelve years old being attacked at least once during his or her remaining lifetime is almost one in two.
  2. The question of how many rounds one may need does not become an issue until one actually does draw and fire. The high likelihood that one will never have to employ a firearm is completely immaterial to the question.

No, recent events have not influenced anything I do.
OldMarksman is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:24 PM   #10
Botswana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2012
Posts: 203
Security is an illusion. Bad guys can strike at any time. One of these days we'll come to grips with that.

Ah, who am I fooling? If the events of 9/11 wasn't a wake up call to how unsafe the world is nothing will be. People were back in their cocoons within a year.

I don't feel any less safe then I did before. I refuse to live my life in fear, but I'm also not so foolish to ever believe I am "safe".
Botswana is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:26 PM   #11
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,486
Quote:
You've heard the phrase before. Situational awareness.

All the hardware in the world won't save you if you don't have it.

Stay alert.
That is true, and I have always kept aware. Probably even more so now.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:48 PM   #12
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 7,117
On the rare occasion I go to a theatre,,,

On the rare occasion I go to a theatre,,,

I think I'll sit towards the back.

Aarond

.
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 12:53 PM   #13
Marquezj16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Posts: 2,088
I have not changed a thing. Risk assessment and situational awareness is ingrained as part of my training.

The day we start to live in fear, is the day we let them win.
Marquezj16 is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 02:21 PM   #14
P5 Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 1,159
Not Too Much

I have been taking another reload since the "FlashRob-n-Loot" stuff started.
I honestly do not remember the movie I saw in a theater?
P5 Guy is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 04:53 PM   #15
rem44m
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 171
Nope, but I have always watched for an ambush when in a crowd. Just stay aware of your surroundings and practice with what you carry.
__________________
I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

"If gun owners are as violent as anti-gunners said we are, there wouldn't be any anti's left"
rem44m is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 06:18 PM   #16
Ruark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2010
Posts: 181
I've sharpened up my skills a bit since recent events. It's easy to become complacent when you CCW for months and months, even years, on end. After a while your practice sessions get further apart (jeez, that ammo's expensive!), you stop carrying more often (aw, I'm just running down the block for some milk), and so on.

The Colorado shooting was something of a wake-up call for a lot of people. There have been some home invasions in a nearby city (we live on a farm). Recently there was a carjacking story in the newspaper. A woman was sitting at a stop sign. The carjacker came up behind and bumped her. He got out of the car with a big, friendly grin, and the lady got out, too, of course, and they walked around to the rear bumper to "check the damage." They found her corpse in a field a few days later.

Maybe I need to run down the street for some milk. I'm wearing a tucked-in shirt, and CCW means changing shirts. Changing shirts? Just for some milk? Too much hassle, good grief, nothing's going to happen anyway. You get my drift.

I've sort of picked up some things, bought some ammo and practiced more. I've increased my draw-and-dryfire practice, and try to carry more consistently. These days, you just... never... know.
Ruark is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 09:48 PM   #17
kennethlee
Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 55
Good post Cheepshooter.

I was ruminating about the level of violent crime myself just the other day. I ran across an article a few days ago (don't have the reference for it but I'll look) and the author, a social psychologist, said that the actual incidents of violent crime have gone down over the past 20 years and that it's the media that hypes it so much that makes it seem like it's going up.

Your post made me do some searching. Look at these statistics from the FBI website:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../violent-crime


I haven't worked through it all yet but basically, in the last 5 years we've seen a significant drop in violent crime.

I'd like to learn more about this.
__________________
You become what you practice.
kennethlee is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 08:16 AM   #18
dannyb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2008
Location: SE PA
Posts: 214
Situational awareness vs. paranoia

I agree with the posters who say that they haven't really changed because of the dramatic headlines. I agree with them. The odds of facing a mass-murdering crazy are microscopic - even the odds of getting mugged are low these days. In the 60s, the attitude, at least in the Northeast, was that these were disadvantaged people in need of rehabilitation - and that they had an absolute right to rehabilitation even if the innocent were victimized by them. Those days of tolerance are gone, and the violent crime rate has dropped accordingly.

It still pays to be situationally aware, however, because it's always better to avoid a confrontation than to try and survive it. On the other hand, awareness has greater dimensions than we may realize. For example, my parents had a friend who lived in a checkered neighborhood. He was walking home from the subway, when he spotted a small cluster of teen boys on the street corner, just hanging around and commenting obnoxiously to passersby. He did what seemed to him to be the sensible thing. Keeping an eye on the gang on the corner, he crossed the street in the middle of the block - which is when he walked right in front of the moving car and got hit. It wasn't an attack, he had violated the rule that was drummed into him from the time he was allowed to walk about on his own - when you cross the street, look both ways. It's cold comfort to escape the flash mob only to be killed by the city bus.
__________________
Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash)
dannyb is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 02:27 PM   #19
Vermonter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 955
SA and good training

Here is the thing......

With modern technology there is just no excuse not to carry. Even if your just running to the store how hard is it to slip and LCP or 642 into your pocket? If you do enough training with those little pocket guns you can become proficent

Point being that I am always carrying something. I am not ever armed to the teeth either. I typically keep a truck gun and an on the body gun. No one eever knows what is about to happen but being aware and prepared is a good start.

To answer the origional question I do not believe things have gotten worse then they had been previously. The media has a lot to do with the current level of sensationalism.

Regards, Vermonter
Vermonter is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 03:45 PM   #20
MonsterB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2010
Posts: 347
Only thing I have changed is trying to be more on top of my situational awareness. I guess I am also favoring my higher capacity ccw guns as well. I still have my j frame with me quite a bit, but my g23 is getting alot of firing and carrying time lately. Its my go to gun, and I am trying to keep very sharp with it. It seems to me that whenever a major shooting spree that captures mass media happens, others happen soon after. There have been alot of deadly shootings lately, including one two weeks ago right down the street from my work(where you would not expext that to happen). Do as you always do, be ready, pay attention, and dont forget to sharpen your knives and load your guns with fresh amo!
MonsterB is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 04:07 PM   #21
kimbershot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Posts: 120
i am practicing more with my 1911's. doing drills focusing on "combat accuracy" vs. grouping in the x ring.
kimbershot is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 06:13 PM   #22
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,702
Nope, still a Glock and a J with plenty of ammo. I have always been considered paranoid because of the hardware I carry. I was an inner city cop at a time when most police shootings never made the news and even then was usually just a footnote. I do not count on the news media to tell me things are OK and safe in the world. Being a trained and experienced shooter armed with 27 rounds of .40 and 10 rounds of 357 magnum, provided I am aware of my surroundings I am prepared for most lethal encounters I find myself in. It is also critical to be proficient in verbal skills. This allows for potential de-escalation and physical techniques as an intermediate level between verbal skills and lethal force.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 06:35 PM   #23
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,148
Quote:
In light of the recent events, and some from a while back, are you doing things differently when it comes to CCW.
One can no more predict what kind of shooting they'll be in than they can predict when and where.

"Recent events" have been occuring for ever. High profile shootings occupy the news for days at a time, but regular ol' citizens like you and me are the victims far more often, and always have been.

I arm myself according to how secure I feel. A little Kel-Tech in my pocket doesn't do it for me, though better than nothing.

Shame on those who arm themselves based on "averages", since averages include the extremes which seem to get lost in all the stats.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 07:20 PM   #24
ROGER4314
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2009
Location: East Houston
Posts: 257
I taught teenagers for 22 years and worked in the Texas Prison system. Between training and experience, I am blessed with intuition, a BS detector, eyes in the back of my head and radar for trouble. I'm not doing a thing differently.

Flash
ROGER4314 is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 08:00 PM   #25
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,188
Nope...Honest to God I have not changed my crazy ass one bit.

Only thing that changes is what I carry from time to time.

In no order, I actually carry and sleep with..

SIG P226e2
SIG 1911 xo
Glock 19, 21, 34

Amount of magazines?......
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12942 seconds with 9 queries