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Old August 23, 2012, 04:21 PM   #1
pnac
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Judge orders release of Marine veteran

The ex-Marine that was sent to a psychiatric hospital for posts on facebook is ordered released by a circuit court in Hopewell, VA. today. Judge says his civil rights were violated. I smell multiple lawsuits coming!

Putting someone in the psych ward for speaking out sounds like the Soviet Union, is this what "free speech" is supposed to be?

http://wtvr.com/2012/08/23/brandon-r...veteran-freed/
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Old August 23, 2012, 04:23 PM   #2
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Good news
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Old August 23, 2012, 07:21 PM   #3
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I quickly skimmed over the piece. I see nowhere where he advocated the use of force verbally to overthrow the government. He said take our republic back. From his blog he was implying by legal means not by use of arms. I don't agree with his 9/11 jibberjaba but saw no reason for the FBI to what it did just from the blog. Which leads to the question is there something we don't know about?
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Old August 23, 2012, 07:24 PM   #4
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The fact that this occured at all is disturbing. We cant throw people we disagree with or even agree with in the looney bin for simple speech alone.
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Old August 23, 2012, 08:47 PM   #5
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Without knowing what went on during he FBI interview, it is impossible to evaluate whether he should have been taken into custody and hauled off to the psych ward.
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Old August 23, 2012, 08:53 PM   #6
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Thought crime.

Take note, those of you who make fun of us tin-foil hat wearers.
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Old August 23, 2012, 09:03 PM   #7
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Without knowing what went on during he FBI interview, it is impossible to evaluate whether he should have been taken into custody and hauled off to the psych ward.
Apparently nothing worth documenting.

Here's an article about what has happened so far:

https://www.rutherford.org/publicati...t_who_could_be
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Old August 23, 2012, 09:35 PM   #8
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Mine's aluminum foil with the shiny side out.
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Old August 23, 2012, 10:07 PM   #9
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Thought crime.
We don't have enough information to say that. We have one side of the story, which may be selective or redacted.

I'll wait until court documents are released before jumping to conclusions.
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Old August 23, 2012, 10:28 PM   #10
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Tom has it right. His visit to the looney bin may be under codes existing in every state for observation of persons deemed an imminent danger to themselves or others.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; August 24, 2012 at 12:23 AM.
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Old August 23, 2012, 11:24 PM   #11
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We seem to lack some information.

The judge, who theoretically has heard both sides, does not seem to believe the detention was justified, nor that the Feds nor state showed any reasonable cause whatsoever.
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Old August 24, 2012, 12:29 AM   #12
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The judge did not rule that the detention was or was not justied per se, but that the affidavit was void of facts justifying the same.

Whether facts existed that would have justified the issuance of an arrest warrant was not before the court. They probably did not exist, else they would have been included but it could simply be a poorly drafted application for a warrant.

Added by edit: As I guessed, his arrest wasn't for a crime, per se, but for psychiatric evaluation. https://www.rutherford.org/publicati...t_who_could_be

The order involved wasn't an arrest warrant but an order committing him to 30 days for phsych eval. The problem was that he had been held for days based on probable cause before the order issued and the same law only permits 4 hours of incarceration for evaluation without such an order.

I agree that this is an awesome power that needs to be carefully regulated by the courts. Virginia's 4 hour limit is much better imo than states that permit observation without court authorization for as much as 3 days.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Raub commited a crime.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; August 24, 2012 at 02:03 AM.
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Old August 24, 2012, 02:54 AM   #13
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The ex-Marine
No such thing.



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Old August 24, 2012, 03:18 AM   #14
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once a marine always a marine

however, I believe he can be held up to 72hrs for health reasons(speaking of engaging in rebellions as an example if it is possible he can harm others to say the least). therefore, he might've been released, but his rights might not have been violated.
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Old August 24, 2012, 09:58 AM   #15
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But have they now made it so that he falls into the "mentally ill" class of prohibited persons? Will he be able to obtain a fire arm if he walked into his local LGS and tried to purchase one today?

Even if he was able to be detained for evaluation, have they inadvertently stepped on some of his other rights? And if so is there any recourse?
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:05 AM   #16
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Reading the directions for ATF Form 4473, it sounds like he can still honestly answer "no" to question 11. The instructions specifically say that being remanded to a mental institution for observation isn't the same as being "committed", and there's even a specific exemption that says that being committed by an agency of the federal government (as opposed to being committed by the court system) doesn't make you a prohibited person after you've been released or the agency decides not to pursue the committal.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; August 24, 2012 at 10:08 AM. Reason: typo
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:06 AM   #17
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Thanks Scott.
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Old August 24, 2012, 01:57 PM   #18
pnac
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Quote:
Quote:
The ex-Marine
Quote:
No such thing.
I agree. I guess he was "a Marine no longer in uniform that dared to speak out". Anyway, he got the Soviet-style psych ward treatment for speaking his mind.
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Old August 24, 2012, 06:34 PM   #19
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For those of you who do not know or do not remember, big Sis authored a memo stating that ex military were the greatest terrorist threat to the US.

http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/0...rorist-threat/

Not a big fan of the Watch Tower but it is a good read.

Apparently, Janet is not the only member of the administration that believes that we pose a threat.
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Old August 24, 2012, 07:00 PM   #20
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Iirc, the Virginia Supreme Court report I read a month ago said that the state issued about 6000 green warrants in 2011. That's the number of people picked up, not the number that had a hearing within 72 hours and were sent for more evaluation like Mr. Raub.

If you would like to know the regulations in your state, click on this link and then use the drop-down box on the right side to find your state.

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.o...-in-your-state

From a local tv station, a quote from someone who worked with him overseas:

"In a recent article, the Richmond-Times Dispatch quotes Sean Lawlor -- a vet who says he was Raub's platoon commander in Iraq, as saying quote:

"knowing the man that he is, I believe that he fully intended to act on the threats he was posting.""

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19347360/...aring-thursday
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Old August 24, 2012, 08:01 PM   #21
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I have seen enough of the Psychiatric profession over the years to know they can and will commit anyone who they deem a "threat" no matter how shaky the grounds.

As a gun owner and someone who does not share the opinions of the current administration this is very chilling, expressing ones beliefs is now punishable by detainment.

All they need to do in some states is find some pencil neck bureaucrat with a grudge and WHAM your "detained". Thank god this guy got the attention of civil rights groups or he would probably be committed for a minimum of another 30 days.
But again, all that same bureaucrat needs to do is recommend that a detention continue and few judges will go against it.

Suddenly all those guys talking about FEMA camps don't seem so paranoid do they?
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Old August 24, 2012, 08:49 PM   #22
pnac
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Quote:
From a local tv station, a quote from someone who worked with him overseas:

"In a recent article, the Richmond-Times Dispatch quotes Sean Lawlor -- a vet who says he was Raub's platoon commander in Iraq, as saying quote:

"knowing the man that he is, I believe that he fully intended to act on the threats he was posting.""

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19347360/...aring-thursday
Threats? I must have missed the part where he made threats.
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Old August 25, 2012, 07:22 PM   #23
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For those interested, this is what Mr. Raub posted that caused all the hubub:

http://wtvr.com/2012/08/21/full-text...republic-back/

I'm not seeing any "terroristic threats" in that, but as Tom Servo pointed out there may be more information yet to be revealed.
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Old August 25, 2012, 08:55 PM   #24
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I too failed to find anything terroristic in nature in the text the link above goes to. Seems to me he was speaking the truth as he sees it. As in, exercising his 1st amendment right.
If there isn't more than this, somebody's on shaky ground. And I don't think it's Mr. Raub.
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Old August 26, 2012, 10:01 PM   #25
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They can deprive you of Liberty without due process. The pursuit of happiness is something I'm not even gonna get into, but they can accomplish this without "due process" or better yet "corrupt process".

If this isn't stopped soon and the people that are guilty of depriving this young Marine his freedom are not brought to justice, then what's left? Life?
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