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Old September 12, 2012, 10:35 PM   #1
willhud
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First 1911 Pistol

I am about to purchase my first 1911 Pistol. For cost / learning sake, I want to purchase a .22LR version. That would allow lower cost ammo to spend more practice time.

I don't want to go over around $400.

What manufacturer would you all suggest?

Thanks.
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:40 PM   #2
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I see cheap ammo is the logic in your Cal. selection ;

I would strongly urge you to consider the following :

For the bulk price of range ammo available going to (for convo sake) a 9mm , which could also be used for defense, CC, etc. and a purchase price of 400.00

vs buying a 22 for practice ( which can't really constitute practice , since there is really no logical relativity ) for 400 and dropping another 500 a while later has pretty much workedout to you paying double what you shouldve in the first place.

man i hope that came out clear, i almost confused myself writing it
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:42 PM   #3
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You need to practice, with the same firearm you carry. And a .22 is not a logical Carry.

Also, you will end up spending more by buying a .22 first, then a larger cal, then you ever would have in ammo

AND the shooting similarities between a substantial cal. and a .22 will be virtually non exsistant.

There - self clarified.
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Old September 13, 2012, 10:10 PM   #4
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1STSFODD - Thanks for the advice, and I can definitely see your point.

I grew up with guns, but have very limited experience with handguns. The only ones we had were .22's. Some hunters would have called them finishing guns. My grandfather generally carried one when checking his coon traps <smile>. You hunted with a rifle, or more often a shotgun. At least in our house.

I had not shot a gun in about 25 years until just recently. I have had a .22 revolver thats been in the family forever, but hadn't shot it until a week or so ago. My wife and I had a good time at the range and I have made the decision to at least do some range time. I don't know if I would ever 'carry', although I can definitely see the home defense issue.

In the past, other then a .22, the only pistols I have shot, were a 357/38 quite a bit as a friend of mine had one as a teen and we would go shoot that often. And once, when I was around 8 or 9 my uncle let me shoot his .44 magnum, that left me picking myself up off the ground from the recoil. Of course, I am not that little kid anymore, but I don't have a lot of experience with different calibers and their recoil in pistols. It's totally different when you put the butt of a rifle to your shoulder.

I know I like the feel of the 1911 in my hand over say some of the other similar guns I have held. I like the weight, grip, etc. That and it's generally good recommendations was why I had decided on that type of semi-auto. That said, if I wasn't going with a .22LR, what would you recommend in that price range. Manufacturer/caliber.

I do intend to try to rent a few at the local ranges before I decide completely. I had pretty much came up with this plan because I honestly don't know if I will ever get past the 'plinking' stage or (as happens a lot with me) this will be a hobby I get bored with in 6 months and not pursue again. <grin>

And let me admit now, my targeting needs help to say the least. My hands and eyes are near what they were in my 20's.
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Old September 14, 2012, 12:56 AM   #5
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Another thought is to get the "real" .45 and then add a .22 conversion slide kit for the practice you seek. From what I can tell, Advantage Arms and Marvel Precision are considered to make the best of these.

Kimber also makes a kit that should fit one of their guns if you get that. My Kimber kit didn't fit my Taurus, however....
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Old September 14, 2012, 01:08 AM   #6
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I think Mosin just made a suggestion better than I would have ever thought of.

As far as WHICH .45 to roll with, well.. that becomes a whole other question in its entireity. ( One which I am certain you can find a suitor for at your local gun shop. )

I would certainly check out the used market for something by SIG. or S&W.

There are ALOT of great resources and a TONNE of information on the semi auto forum here, that will help you in getting an idea for brands and such on here. However, ultimately ; it is your personal style and comforts that will choose for you!

And hey, .45s make an awesome CAL. all around.
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Old September 14, 2012, 01:22 AM   #7
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If I decided I just wanted to get a .22 1911 first, before making the decision about what .45 version to buy, I would get the GSG 1911.

The apparent quality is good, I've read real good things about it, and it apparently is real close in dimensions to the real thing. The SIG .22 1911 is I think made by GSG also. I have not read or heard good things about Chiappa.
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Old September 14, 2012, 05:04 AM   #8
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The Ruger .22/45 is based on the dimensions of the 1911.
I have two of them.
One has at least 50,000 rounds on it. Maybe twice that. I really lost track.
I bought the second one just in case the first one died...

I also have a Ciener .22 conversion that fits both my full sized Kimbers.
The conversion is ok, but, I really don't think it would hold up to a tenth of the number of rounds of the Ruger.
It's more of a novelty to me than anything else.

An alternative to a .22 would be to invest in a reloading setup.
The .45acp is an extremely easy and friendly cartridge to reload.
It's no problem at all to get 10 or more uses out of the brass.

People dog on Lee reloading equipment all the time, but, my Lee turret press is 35 years old and still going strong.

This press:
http://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html
is pretty much all you really need for the .45acp. due to the low operating pressure of the .45acp.
It's very possible to get into reloading for ~ half your .22 budget.
It's something to consider...
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Old September 14, 2012, 09:02 AM   #9
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I would look seriously concider a 22 conversion kit for your 1911. But I will also say I saw a 1911 22 Beretta in the $425 price range.
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Old September 14, 2012, 09:59 AM   #10
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+1 to what Hal said.

I started shooting handguns with a 1911 .... first pistol cartridge I reloaded for, as well.

Simple stuff, really.

I also bought a .22/45 ..... stainless bull barrel. Works for fundamentals, but not for failure drills, mag changes, etc.....
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Old September 14, 2012, 03:12 PM   #11
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thanks for the info , bob!! learned something there myself. never even seen a .22 conv. kit in person. good to know
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Old September 14, 2012, 03:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
I am about to purchase my first 1911 Pistol. For cost / learning sake, I want to purchase a .22LR version. That would allow lower cost ammo to spend more practice time.

I don't want to go over around $400.

What manufacturer would you all suggest?
In keeping with the original post - I would suggest a Sig/GSG 1911-22. Some people will bash it because it has zink alloy frame and aluminum slide. Mine has been great and has the full size but not the weight of a 45 ACP 1911.

Another 1911-22 that has good reviews is the Browning 1911-22. It's about 80% of a regular 1911 and a little over your budget.

There is also the Colt 1911-22. Have only seen it. Looks good and feels good.

There is a review on Guns and Ammo mag - Aug 2012 that compares these rimfire 1911-22 including the kits from Marvel and Kimber. The online site does not have it yet but maybe you can find a copy at wal mart.

Good luck with your search.
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Old September 14, 2012, 06:42 PM   #13
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I'm a 1911 shooter. My carry weapon is a 1911. I have a .22LR conversion mounted on a dedicated (steel) receiver for when I want inexpensive plinking. I like shooting the .22, but make no mistake -- there is NO recoil, and it isn't in any way practice for shooting a centerfire 1911 (other than working on trigger control). In fact, it's easy to pick up bad habits, because multiple accurate follow-up shots are so easy with the .22 that there's a tendency to think I can do the same with full-power .45 Auto loads -- and that doesn't work out so well.

I have also shot the Kimber Rimfire (both the complete gun and the conversion), the GSG, the Colt/Umarex, and the Chiappa. The Kimber Rimfore is an excellent pistol ... but I hated it. It was accurate, and I had zero malfunctions in a range session. However, it's a aluminum slide on an aluminum receiver, so it feels like a toy. I've shot up-scale airsoft replicas that felt more like shooting a "real" 1911. The Kimber conversion on a steel receiver was much better, but I passed on that, too, simply because I already have a Ciener conversion (which the Kimber is a near copy of) on a dedicated receiver so I didn't need another.

The GSG is an excellent rendition of a 1911 in .22LR. If I didn't already have my conversion, I think the GSG is the one I'd buy.

The Colt/Umarex shoots very well and the one I was allowed to shoot ran without any hiccups. The drawback if it's for someone who wants to get started on the 1911 platform is that the construction is very un-1911 like. The barrel is fixed on a riser that's an integral part of the frame. The manual of arms for field stripping is quite unlike anything a 1911 shooter is likely to have encountered.

The Chiappa -- well, the one I shot belongs to a friend. I shot it right after he got it back from a warranty repair, and the plunger tube assembly fell off while I was shooting it. I won't say it's junk, but you can draw your own conclusions.
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Old September 14, 2012, 08:09 PM   #14
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If you are set on a 1911, for the price point you are wanting to stay in I would go with the following:

Rock Island 1911 9mm Tactical - Best 1911 9mm in the price range your wanting to spend and would rival more expensive 1911's in 9mm.


GSG for a .22LR

I hope that helps, good luck.
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Old September 14, 2012, 08:42 PM   #15
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I'll also put a plug in for the Ruger 22/45. It's a higher quality firearm than any of the .22 1911ish pistols. http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html

I think a .22 is excellent to learn/train with. Get the trigger control, breath control, and other fundamentals under control before moving to a centerfire pistol. It's too easy to pick up bad habits otherwise, like flinching or jerking.
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:04 PM   #16
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Thanks for all the help and info, I have a LOT to learn. LOL!

If I follow this correctly, (Please correct me if I am wrong on anything).

It sounds like the GSG .22 is a good weapon, and also that the GSG, Sig, and (if bud's descriptions are any indication) American Tactical Imports are basically the same weapon. Is this also a good company/weapon in the .45 caliber?

The Browning 1911 .22 would probably be better made, but I can't find it in my price range. It also seems there are at least two different versions, at least one of which is actually smaller then a normal .22. so I am a but confused on that still and need to do more research. All the prices I keep seeing though are in the $500.00 to 600.00. I tried Buds, Cheaper then Dirt, Gun Broker and a couple other sites. I haven't checked the Local gun store though.

Stay away from the Chiappa... <grin> would scare me to death to start to shoot a gun and parts fall off. Is this just their .22's or all of them?

The Ruger 22/45 looks sounds really nice. Not sure about the slide/lever (not sure of the proper term) on that, it looks strange to me.

I haven't seen many .45's or 9mm's in my price range. That was another part of my original decision to go with the .22. That said, the Rock Island does have .45's and 9mm's (as you stated) in my price range, so I may consider that after renting something similar and trying it. I just have never fired a .45 or 9mm. Is Rock Island a respected manufacturer? Are there other manufacturers of the .45 or 9mm in the $400.00 price range you would recommend? I had assumed to get a quality .45 or 9mm I would have to hit at least the $800 to 1000.00 range, which for me right now isn't feasible nor do I want to spend that only to find out this is a short lived enthusiastic hobby.

I was curious about the colt... after, all, growing up Colt was as respectable a name in guns as they come. But when I saw the Umarex name in front of it, I wasn't sure.

The other brands I had seen in the .22 variety was Puma, LSI Citadel, and German Sport gun. Are there any comments about those? The Citadel even says it's the same weight as the original, but I am assuming that is unloaded.

And a special thanks for a heads up on the Guns and Ammo article. I will see if I can find a copy.

Right now, I am leaning towards the Sig .22 1911 FDE. I like the look over the standard Sig .22 1911. I think it costs about $20 to $40 more though. I held one at the local gun store and it felt nice in my hand.

Again, I really appreciate all the advice and education.
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:06 PM   #17
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Oh, also will the Ruger 22/45 allow to do use the standard 1911 grips? can you interchange them like other 1911's?
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Old September 15, 2012, 01:42 AM   #18
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The Ruger .22/45 Mark II has a solid polymer frame, so, no, you can't put any other type of grips on it. (not sure about the Mark III)
It's not a copy of a 1911, BTW, it only follows the 1911's dimensions & to some degree, the control locations.
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Old September 15, 2012, 02:56 AM   #19
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GSG doesn't make .45s. It appears to be a German company specializing in .22lr knockoffs of higher-caliber guns. They seem to be pretty good at it.
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Old September 15, 2012, 07:26 AM   #20
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Willhud- In the price point of $400 Rock Island is it. As I stated, it is a very good quality 1911. I have also heard great things about their customer service, thankfully I have never had to use it. Search the forum on previous posts about Rock Island, I think you will find the overwhelming consensus is positive. As to a Colt, the last 1911's they made in 9mm was the 70 or 80 series. If you can find one of them you will pay much more than what your wanting. I have to agree with several other posts on the .22LR pistol, unless you are just absolutely wanting a 1911 .22 I would also go with a Ruger. It's not an identical copy of a 1911 but the grip angle is close enough to a 1911 that it will provide a good feel of one. Lastly, as to a 9mm or .45; 9mm all the way. Unless you reload the 9mm ammo is much cheaper to shoot than .45, it still provides great self defense capabilities, is more pleasant to shoot at the range due to recoil, etc. Hope that helps, Good Luck.
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Old September 15, 2012, 07:33 AM   #21
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For 1911s in the price range, RIA is the only new pistol I would consider. They make great, reliable 1911s at a great price. I have the 9mm RIA GI and love it. They make a tactical with some bells and whistles if you want em for not much more. Recoil: easy on the hands which makes for a good range trip.

The Sig .22 would make for a lot of fun, but a 9mm 1911 would be more versatile. Not too expensive range trip with a gun anyone could shoot (my wife enjoys it) that could be used for self defense or carried as backup while hunting.

Warning: 1911s are like Lays. Can't have just one.
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Old September 15, 2012, 10:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willhud
It sounds like the GSG .22 is a good weapon, and also that the GSG, Sig, and (if bud's descriptions are any indication) American Tactical Imports are basically the same weapon. Is this also a good company/weapon in the .45 caliber?
GSG (German Sport Guns) is the maker, of the GSG and the SIG. ATI doesn't make guns, they import the GSG and distribute it in the U.S.

As noted, GSG does not make .45s. ATI imports .45 caliber 1911s made by Shooters Arms Manufacturing (S.A.M.) in the Philippines. They are excellent, entry-level 1911s.

The new Ruger 22/45 does accept standard 1911 grip panels, although I believe anything other than Ruger grips require trimming a corner. I'm not sure on that, because my 22/45 is the previous series with molded-in grips. Either way, the 22/45 is not a good choice for someone wishing to get started on the 1911 platform. Yes, the grip angle relative to the barrel axis is the same, but the mechanism is completely different, the feel is completely different. I own a 22/45 and I have not fired it for several years -- not since shortly after buying it. It's just not like shooting a 1911. When I want rimfire plinking, I take the Ciener conversion I have mounted on a junk 1911 receiver I picked up for $25 and everything about the shooting experience (other than recoil) is the same as my "real" 1911.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; September 16, 2012 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old September 15, 2012, 12:21 PM   #23
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But I will also say I saw a 1911 22 Beretta in the $425 price range.
That would be one rare 1911 right there.
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:22 PM   #24
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Ditto on the Rock Island Armory. It's a great entry level 1911, reliable and accurate and all for around the $400 price range. Had a new shooter at the range today who made the mistake of listening to someone that talked him into buying a used .380. We spent more time clearing jams that shooting it. I took out my RIA .45 ACP 5" and let him shoot it. He is a convert and will be looking for his own in the very near future. Nothing like the feel of a real 1911 firing a real .45 round. The extra money spent for ammo will be very rewarding.
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Old September 16, 2012, 11:13 AM   #25
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Rock island tactical or american classic 2. Like it or not, the fillipino 1911's are solid and seem to have fewer problems than most 'american made' 1911's at twice the price.
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