The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 22, 2012, 06:22 PM   #1
Gunnut17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 394
Best Method/Holster For CCW With Mid-Sized Pistol

Hi, me again, with a question.

What method of carry and holster would be best for CCW'ing a mid-size handgun? Like a Glock 19 or HK P30. What would allow for the best compromise between concealment, speed on the draw, and comfort. Comfort being the least important, with concealment the runner-up, and in first place, speed.

Just about any method will do, except for ankle carry, that is more for a backup gun, and it focuses too much on concealment, with speed almost left out entirely. Cross-draw is also worth consideration, but I hear a lot about the downsides of it, such as the fact that if the gun went off, it could either hurt you or someone behind you.

Thanks in advance, I am sure you will all be of big help!
__________________
________(====()_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-,
I_iiiii__/'''''''''[{]''''''''{_)_)_)_)_)_}========

"|Pistol calibers| all suck, so pick the one you shoot best."
Gunnut17 is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 08:38 PM   #2
tomrkba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2011
Posts: 609
Inside the waistband holster, strong side or appendix
Two magazine holders on the support side
Strong gun belt
Minimum T-shirt or heavier covering garment, straight cut

The IWB holster maximizes concealment. An outside the waistband holster will be more comfortable, but it is much more difficult to conceal.

Appendix carry gives you a faster draw and the gun is always in front where you can control it. You may have printing problems, depending upon the cut of the shirt you're wearing and your body shape. You will not be able to carry in the appendix position if you are very heavy in front.

Strong side carry is another good method. The holster should be canted forward to reduce printing. The draw is slightly slower because your strong side arm and shoulder have to move back. Your support hand has to go across your body to clear the garment. It may be more comfortable than appendix carry. You may have difficulty carrying strong side IWB if you are overweight.

Last edited by tomrkba; August 22, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
tomrkba is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 08:46 PM   #3
Johannes_Paulsen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 283
I have found that the Glock 19 conceals for me very well with a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB strong-side. I was reluctant to go IWB at first, but Crossbreed has a money-back guarantee, and I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable it is.

Definitely get a strong belt. I bought several double bridle belts from Filson -- a little pricey, but they are strong, will last a very long time, and even work when I have to wear a suit.
Johannes_Paulsen is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 09:15 PM   #4
tlm225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 661
Another vote for the Crossbreed. With the matching belt and V-clips it's been the best IWB I've used and is my #1 method of carry. Since you emphasize speed above all else though I would have to recomend an open top outside the waistband holster such as the Galco concealable.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
tlm225 is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 09:20 PM   #5
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
I have both the Crossbreed Supertuck and the open-top Galco for my Springfield EMP (a 3" 1911). tim225 pretty much nailed it - the Crossbreed allows for better concealment, but the Galco allows faster access.

I wear the Crossbreed at about 2 o' clock, and the Galco closer to 3 o' clock.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 10:42 PM   #6
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,658
A quality IWB holster worn dominant side with an open front cover garment. A proper, heavy belt is a must.

I'm partial to the Milt Sparks Versa Max 2. And when OWB carry is more convenient, I like the Milt Sparks Axiom. I carry concealed whenever I legally can -- most often a Commander size 1911, and occasionally an H&K P7M8.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 10:49 PM   #7
allaroundhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
I carry a Glock 19 on occasion, and I will also say that the Crossbreed is a great holster. However, body type and shape have a lot to do with concealment and it varies from person to person. For best concealment, a quality IWB holster is your best bet, but which one will work best for you is only something that you can find out.

A good and sturdy belt is definitely necessary, and it will significantly lighten even a heavy load. To avoid "printing", plaid shirts do a good job of breaking up the curves of what some people worry about other people seeing when they begin carrying a weapon.

I prefer to carry in the 4-5 o'clock position, and if I am driving I move it closer to 3 o'clock for comfort and accessibility.

Sent from my HTC One X

Last edited by allaroundhunter; August 22, 2012 at 10:55 PM.
allaroundhunter is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 10:52 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,658
A reason I favor dominate side carry is that the standard presentation, as described below, from dominant side carry is an extremely efficient way in which to deploy the gun.

[1] You want to achieve a full firing grip before withdrawing the pistol from the holster. You should not have to shift your grip. Throughout the draw stroke, until you are actually going to fire the gun, the trigger finger stays off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame. 



[2] While the strong hand is moving to grip the pistol, the weak hand is placed flat on the abdomen near the same level as the grip of the pistol. This helps assure that the weak hand isn't swept by the muzzle and also puts the weak hand in position to take grip the pistol over the strong hand.



[3] The pistol is withdrawn straight upwards from the holster, and the muzzle is rotated toward the target after it clears the holster. If using 1911, Browning High Power, or some other gun with a safety engaged, the safety may be disengaged here, but the trigger finger remains off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.



[4] When the muzzle is rotated toward the target the strong hand is at about the level of the strong side pectoral muscle and the strong hand is held at or touching the side with the muzzle pointed to the threat. If the threat is very close, within a few yards, the gun may be fired from this position. This is called the retention position. 



[5] At the retention position, the weak hand comes up to assume its part of the grip. The two hands then together extend the gun either fully up to shooting position or partially at a downward angle to the low ready position, depending on the circumstances.



[6] The gun is holstered by following those steps in reverse. I have been taught to follow these steps whenever removing my gun from, or placing my gun in, the holster.



[7] I've also been taught to begin moving my strong hand to the gun from about my belt buckle. The thing is that if I'm carrying my gun concealed I will need to displace my covering garment to gain access to the gun. If I sweep my strong from approximately mid line I automatically sweep aside my covering garment.

Two key words here: smooth and control.

The goal is to do this smoothly. If one concentrates on being smooth and practice over and over again, he will get fast. Speed comes from smoothness and no wasted motion. And one must be in control at all times. At lot is going on, and a misstep on the presentation can be devastating. But by being smooth you retain control, and by being smooth you become fast. And by being smooth and in control you will be accurate.


__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 11:17 PM   #9
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Depending on what I'm wearing, my primary is usually carried strongside IWB or OWB. For OWB, I have leather holsters from Sam Andrews and from Soteria Leather, and also have a High Noon Slide Guard on order. For IWB, I have Sam Andrews MacDaniels and Soteria leathers, plus hybrid holsters (CompTac Minotaur; White Hat).

Recently, I ran across Remora IWB holsters. I had never considered this sort of holster before, as I prefer form-fitted, and would not have believed something like the Remora would a) retain the pistol, and b) maintain its position in the waistband. However, articles and reviews about the holster were unanimously favorable (in fact, the only complaint I've read has literally been, "What do you do if you have to use a public restroom?") So, I figured, it's $30, why not give it a try?

I've been carrying a full-size CZ SP-01 in a Remora, now, albeit only for a few days. The reviews that said it would hold position and hold the gun, while being very comfortable (holds position due to friction with clothing, augmented by belt tension, no straps - so it can be adjusted to all sorts of angles) were all on the mark, at least thus far.

I haven't yet come up with a public restroom strategy, though.
MLeake is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 12:12 AM   #10
Ralgha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
I use a High Noon OWB holster at 4:00 for an HK USPc. It conceals fine with an untucked t shirt.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.
Ralgha is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 07:58 AM   #11
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
I wonder what "mid-size" is? At the moment I have a CZ-75 P-01 and a Walther P-99. I'd call them both "service size" myself but I can think of some nice pistols that a re a little smaller, though not necessarily lighter. The Walther weighs less but when loaded the difference (in weight) seems to disappear.

Conventional wisdom is that a belt holster is more comfortable. I'll not dispute that but it may not always be so. Some will find an inside the waistband holster to be intolerable pretty quickly but they are a little easier to conceal. If you think it is easier to make a draw from a belt holster, it may be but it may not conceal quite so easily. No conealment holster is going to be super-fast if it is really well concealed, especially from beneath a t-shirt. The trick is just to start the draw super fast, if you follow me.

My problem with most holsters, both comfort wise and concealment wise (not so much drawing wise) is precisely where the pistol sits in relation to the belt. Most I've looked at hold the gun just a little too high for me but that's entirely a personal thing. Generally speaking, you have to make up your own mind on these matters.

I also think that most holsters present problems if you spend a lot of time sitting either in a chair or vehicle seat, except for crossdraw holster. While a pistol carried IWB-fashion seems to be pretty secure, I've come to like thumb snap holster lately.

I have no experience with shoulder holsters.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 08:05 AM   #12
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
With regard to Blue Train's last post, shoulder flexibility can be a very limiting factor for strong side carry. My 70 year old father finds that he can't draw at all comfortably from anywhere aft of 3 o'clock, and so he carries a 442 in a pocket holster. He could probably also manage a cross-draw, or maybe appendix carry, but he likes pocket carry better.

As far as accessibility while seated, assuming one's shoulder can rotate comfortably for strong side carry, a forward cant can reduce or eliminate problems. I normally carry just behind my hipbone, with a 15 degree FBI cant, and I can draw while seated in a chair or in my truck.
MLeake is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 09:23 AM   #13
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
Although I think an appendix carry is excellent for a small frame revolver with a short barrel, I can't do that since I had my appendix removed.

On a more serious note, one of the most interesting revolvers I ever had was one of the S&W hammerless revolvers they came out with, oh, maybe fifteen years ago. It was a stainless .38 special J-frame and I've long since forgotten the model number (642 maybe?). I'll have to look it up. Anyway, this one had a three-inch barrel. In theory it should have been better in every way than one with a two-inch barrel, yet I never quite came to grips with how to carry it. It clearly was no pocket revolver, though it may have made a decent belt gun but I really didn't experiment with it enough. It was also a double-action only revolver, which not everyone likes, and I do think the J-frames are a little stiffer, trigger-wise, than K-frames.

Edit: It was a model 642, still available (no three-inch barrels), no lock, under $500, or so they say.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 09:29 AM   #14
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Couple factors, there, BT. First, coil spring mechanism (J) vs leaf spring (K). Second, leverage on a short grip (with a light gun for resistance and stability) vs leverage on a longer grip (with a slightly heavier gun for resistance and stability).

I put an Apex trigger kit into my 442, and a friend showed me how to sand down some typical burr areas; pull went from a measured 14.5lbs to a measured 9lbs, and it also smoothed up quite a bit. (Edit: However, it will never be as nice as the triggers on my 13-3 or 18.)

Some people argue that one should not reduce pull weight on a carry gun, due to possibilty of light primer strikes. My counter arguments would be that I haven't had a light primer strike; that carry ammo should be extensively tested with the intended gun before it becomes a carry package; and that being able to shoot more accurately does count quite a bit, so long as one does not lose reliability.
MLeake is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 09:33 AM   #15
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Sorry to the OP for the veer, but...

With regard to the 3" barrel on a small or medium revolver, I think most of the posts I've read about them (and many of the posts I've made about them) have the caveat that they aren't good for pocket carry.

The major advantage I see to the 3" barrel is the full-length ejector rod. This does make a fairly big difference, at least to me, when ejecting .357 cases; it offers some advantage with .38 cases, too, though not quite as much of an advantage.

I also really like the balance of a 3".
MLeake is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 09:44 AM   #16
tomrkba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2011
Posts: 609
I have owned and tested many gun belts. The best so far comes from Comp-Tac.
tomrkba is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 10:18 AM   #17
Chuckusaret
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 708
I CC a XD40 SC in a IWB Galco King Tuk. If you are like most of us you will have a box full of holsters recommended by others before you find the perfect method/fit.
Chuckusaret is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 11:40 AM   #18
Erikbal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2012
Location: Olean, NY
Posts: 374
A while back I bought a cheap IWB holster from my local gun shop just to experiment with. It doesn't attach to the belt though, it just clips on your pants. I would really like to eventually get a good one that attaches to a belt and get a good belt as well. The problem I have is that a lot of my t shirts and such that I wear only go down to a little below my belt. So if I bend some or squat down or something it will easily come up enough to show.
__________________
S&W Bodyguard 380
Ruger SR9C
Erikbal is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 11:52 AM   #19
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikbal View Post
..... The problem I have is that a lot of my t shirts and such that I wear only go down to a little below my belt. So if I bend some or squat down or something it will easily come up enough to show.
The decision to start carrying a concealed gun often means making some other changes in things like your wardrobe, how you dress and how you do things.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 01:47 PM   #20
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,177
IWB @ 4:00
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 03:59 PM   #21
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
You should also consider what body position/activity you are normally engaged in. For example if most of your activities are sitting/driving the a standard strong side or small of the back carry would not be acceptable. A cross draw would probably work better.

My preferred carry is an original Pancake for my 1911 at 4 o clock. Unfortunately, the configuration of my vehicle prevents me from drawing when I am seated in the drivers seat. To remedy this I have installed a holster on the center console. when I enter the vehicle I place the pistol in the console holster.
ltc444 is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 11:35 PM   #22
357autoloader
Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2012
Posts: 25
Without reading the other responses to the OP's question, I submit this...

It depends on a lot of variables like your body type, the environment in which you carry and therefore the clothing you wear. What works for one may not work for others. If you are going to carry always that means you will be carrying winter, summer, spring and fall. You have to find what works for you in all situations.



I carry OWB almost always and am able to conceal sucessfully in situations you may not. You need to give thought to what will work in your situation and then seek methods that will work for your unique requirements.

My recommendation is always carry. Find a way.
357autoloader is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 05:43 AM   #23
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
I gather that, ultimately, it's whatever works best for you, at least at any given moment. I personally think most people will have enough presence of mind to remember where it is if you don't always carry it in the same place. Of course, most isn't everyone. But after re-reading the first post again, I'd reverse the priorities and maybe even change them again later.

While there are those who say comfort isn't important, sooner or later, you may think otherwise. Concealment is a must but not necessarily the very highest priority. And as for speed, that can be problematic. You can't hide a Jordan holster very well (that's what we all use to practice our trick shooting, right?) but any kind of up tight against your body is not going to be the very fastest thing going but it begs the question, how fast is fast enough? So, I guess you have to identify your own problem, then work out the solution to suit yourself.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 06:07 AM   #24
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Actually, BT, the holsters I use regularly for concealed carry are the same holsters I use at IDPA. Same cover garments, too. (I don't use shoot-me-first vests, either.)

The guns I carry regularly are the guns I compete with.

I use IDPA to evaluate whether my carry methods allow decent draw speed.
MLeake is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 06:30 AM   #25
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
Good idea! I like to wear vests in the winter time. I hope I don't get shot first.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13871 seconds with 7 queries