Gun Range Sued

gunuser · August 22, 2012, 11:13 AM

A gun range I go shooting at in Maryland is being sued to the tune of $200,000 for discrimination. They offer ladies night every monday (free charge to use the lanes only for ladies.) This guy is just money hungry! If he does win (which i doubt) this can open up a "big can of worms". Does that mean bars can be sued for offering ladies night discounts? I get a military discount at that range I shoot at, that would mean I can loose that too. Also senior citizens discount would be at stake also. Any ones thoughts on the matter??? I say a business has the right to do what it has to do to earn a living if it does not infringe on a persons right based on race, color, or beliefs.

ScottRiqui · August 22, 2012, 11:21 AM

Anyone can file a lawsuit, but I don't think he has much chance of winning; there's just too much precedent (such as the excellent examples you gave).

**Tom Servo** · August 22, 2012, 11:33 AM

A link to the story would be nice. It's hard to evaluate the situation without further information.

Patriot86 · August 22, 2012, 11:42 AM

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/08...on--79055.html

Quote:

A Maryland man has filed a lawsuit against an area gun range claiming "reverse sexism."

Derrick Hunter says he had to pay to fire off a few rounds at the Maryland Small Arms Range in Upper Marlboro one Monday last year. But because it was "Ladies' Day," women there did not.

"Just because I'm a man doesn't mean I should have to pay more," Hunter said.

We have this problem in Cook County IL too, even worse actually. Its sort of like Goodfellas for Lawyers "Oh it was an accident? #### you Your Sued!"

oneounceload · August 22, 2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

I say a business has the right to do what it has to do to earn a living if it does not infringe on a persons right based on race, color, or beliefs.

Gender is a protected class of people

**Spats McGee** · August 22, 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunuser

I say a business has the right to do what it has to do to earn a living if it does not infringe on a persons right based on race, color, or beliefs.

Gender is a protected class of people

We have a winner!

CW3-RET · August 22, 2012, 12:04 PM

This is kinda like the rules that Visa has on it's merchants. You can't charge more for using the charge card, but you can give a discount for paying cash.

You can't charge a man more for using the range, but you can give discounts. The range charges everybody to use the range on Monday, but they give the ladies a 100 percent discount. Just like the way that Lowes and Home Depot give 10 percent discount to Veterans.

Oysterboy · August 22, 2012, 02:37 PM

If the range can get into trouble over this then the bars (ladies nights) will be in deep doodoo.

sigcurious · August 22, 2012, 02:43 PM

Hrm... this seems to be a fine line between real legal issue and just plain silliness. On one hand, the legal premise is there that it is discrimination. On the other hand, what is this world coming to when people sue over ladies' day/night?

The spirit of the promotion in this case is not discriminatory. I think it could easily be argued that it's a good promotion to increase the numbers of an under represented group in shooting.

I don't think anyone is complaining about ladies' night at their local watering hole or other social venue.

oneounceload · August 22, 2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

On one hand, the legal premise is there that it is discrimination.

First, it is NOT discrimination as you cannot discriminate against a non-protected class of folks by giving a protected class some advantage

Secondly, this guy should be happy - instead of going to bars to pick up chicks, he can go to the gun range - their free ammo is better than buying them cocktails!

Thirdly, and most importantly, females make up 53% of the population and historically voted for Obama - ANY percentage we get to our side is a blessing - this guy needs some "sensitivity training" - Missouri-mule style!

**Glenn E. Meyer** · August 22, 2012, 03:27 PM

No politics, please.

oneounceload · August 22, 2012, 03:29 PM

was meant tongue in cheek, Glenn

**Spats McGee** · August 22, 2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

. . . . Secondly, this guy should be happy - instead of going to bars to pick up chicks, he can go to the gun range - their free ammo is better than buying them cocktails!

Giving new meaning to "buying a round of shots!"

Ba-dum-bum!

I'll be here all week, folks.

aarondhgraham · August 22, 2012, 03:58 PM

Actually, that wasn't too bad,,,

But I still groaned.

Aarond

.

Oysterboy · August 22, 2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

I don't think anyone is complaining about ladies' night at their local watering hole or other social venue.

My point exactly.

Aguila Blanca · August 22, 2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRiqui

Anyone can file a lawsuit, but I don't think he has much chance of winning; there's just too much precedent (such as the excellent examples you gave).

The fact a lot of people are doing it doesn't mean that it's not gender discrimination, and doesn't mean that it's legal. It only means that nobody has complained about it before.

ScottRiqui · August 22, 2012, 06:01 PM

No, I meant actual legal precedent - I'll bet dollars to donuts that this question has been brought before the courts already.

Don H · August 22, 2012, 06:10 PM

Here's a 2010 decision from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals that shot down a Ladies Night discrimination suit: http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decision...16b6/1/hilite/

**Tom Servo** · August 22, 2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Den Hollander, who was admitted to the Nightclubs under this admission regime, attributes these pernicious “Ladies’ Nights” to “40 years of lobbying and intimidation, [by] the special interest group called ‘Feminism’ [which] has succeed in creating a customary practice ... of invidious discrimination of men.”

Quoted because people really do waste the courts' time with suits like this. All. The. Time.

What's interesting about the next part is that gun shops are also subject to an "extensive regulatory system." It could be (unsuccessfully) alleged that they are "state actors" as well under that interpretation:

Quote:

Den Hollander alleges that the Nightclubs engage in state action by selling alcohol on their premises under an extensive regulatory system. According to the amended complaint, the Nightclubs operate in New York and are licensed to sell alcohol on their premises. The New York Alcoholic Beverage Control Law (the “ABC Law”) closely regulates the manufacture, sale, and distribution of alcoholic beverages in New York, and the New York State Liquor Authority (the “SLA”) issues licenses in accordance with and oversees the implementation of the ABC Law.

Of course, Lord help us from the BLEAK FUTURE predicted here:

Quote:

The district court dismissed Den Hollander’s Section 1983 claim after concluding that the Nightclubs were not state actors. Without action on our part, Den Hollander paints a picture of a bleak future, where “none other than what’s left of the Wall Street Moguls” will be able to afford to attend Nightclubs. Because, however, we agree with the district court that Den Hollander has failed to sufficiently allege state action, we must affirm.

I'm thinking someone was chuckling when they wrote that. Barring a new and novel strategy, I forsee Derrick Hunter's lawsuit failing as well.

...and in the process, wasting the court's time and taxpayers' money.

Rembrandt · August 22, 2012, 07:22 PM

Times are changing....even the Ladies will be wearing "Green Jackets" at Augusta.

10-96 · August 22, 2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Times are changing....even the Ladies will be wearing "Green Jackets" at Augusta.

Huh? I don't understand, shooting jackets are available in all sorts of colors and materials. What's up with green ones? Do you mean the green USMC canvas style (which are hard as the dickins to find!)?

allaroundhunter · August 22, 2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rembrandt

Times are changing....even the Ladies will be wearing "Green Jackets" at Augusta.

1858, it isn't a gun thing, it is a golf thing. Women were just recently allowed to become members at Augusta National Golf Club, home of the Masters golf tournament (a major), where membership had been restricted to men.

(Green Jackets are given to those who win a Masters, and members of Augusta National Golf Club...and it is not a shooting jacket)

Salmoneye · August 22, 2012, 09:24 PM

It's been decades in VT since 'Ladies Night' was legal in any venue...Or 'Happy Hour' for that matter...

And we don't ask anyone's permission to carry open or concealed...

ScottRiqui · August 22, 2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

It's been decades in VT since 'Ladies Night' was legal in any venue...Or 'Happy Hour' for that matter...

Are you *sure* that "Ladies' Night" is an illegal practice in Vermont? I'm finding lots of businesses there doing it.

I was able to confirm that "Happy Hour" was illegal, but only because the lawmakers claim it encourages excessive alcohol consumption, not because it involves discriminatory pricing.

KyJim · August 22, 2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

The fact a lot of people are doing it doesn't mean that it's not gender discrimination, and doesn't mean that it's legal. It only means that nobody has complained about it before.

You mean we can't discriminate between pronouns?

August 22, 2012, 11:13 AM	#1
gunuser Member Join Date: April 9, 2006 Posts: 24	Gun Range Sued A gun range I go shooting at in Maryland is being sued to the tune of $200,000 for discrimination. They offer ladies night every monday (free charge to use the lanes only for ladies.) This guy is just money hungry! If he does win (which i doubt) this can open up a "big can of worms". Does that mean bars can be sued for offering ladies night discounts? I get a military discount at that range I shoot at, that would mean I can loose that too. Also senior citizens discount would be at stake also. Any ones thoughts on the matter??? I say a business has the right to do what it has to do to earn a living if it does not infringe on a persons right based on race, color, or beliefs.

August 22, 2012, 11:33 AM	#3
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalach Posts: 7,341	A link to the story would be nice. It's hard to evaluate the situation without further information. __________________ In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. --Albert Camus

August 22, 2012, 03:27 PM	#11
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,307	No politics, please. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

August 22, 2012, 03:58 PM	#14
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 6,388	Oh spats,,, Actually, that wasn't too bad,,, But I still groaned. Aarond . __________________ Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Combat: "A Silent Cry" Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

August 22, 2012, 06:10 PM	#18
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,706	Here's a 2010 decision from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals that shot down a Ladies Night discrimination suit: http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decision...16b6/1/hilite/ __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

August 22, 2012, 11:21 AM	#2
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,901	Anyone can file a lawsuit, but I don't think he has much chance of winning; there's just too much precedent (such as the excellent examples you gave).

August 22, 2012, 12:04 PM	#7
CW3-RET Junior Member Join Date: March 16, 2009 Location: Spotsylvania, VA Posts: 12	This is kinda like the rules that Visa has on it's merchants. You can't charge more for using the charge card, but you can give a discount for paying cash. You can't charge a man more for using the range, but you can give discounts. The range charges everybody to use the range on Monday, but they give the ladies a 100 percent discount. Just like the way that Lowes and Home Depot give 10 percent discount to Veterans.

August 22, 2012, 02:37 PM	#8
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 190	If the range can get into trouble over this then the bars (ladies nights) will be in deep doodoo.

August 22, 2012, 02:43 PM	#9
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2011 Posts: 1,653	Hrm... this seems to be a fine line between real legal issue and just plain silliness. On one hand, the legal premise is there that it is discrimination. On the other hand, what is this world coming to when people sue over ladies' day/night? The spirit of the promotion in this case is not discriminatory. I think it could easily be argued that it's a good promotion to increase the numbers of an under represented group in shooting. I don't think anyone is complaining about ladies' night at their local watering hole or other social venue.

August 22, 2012, 03:29 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	was meant tongue in cheek, Glenn

August 22, 2012, 06:01 PM	#17
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,901	No, I meant actual legal precedent - I'll bet dollars to donuts that this question has been brought before the courts already.

August 22, 2012, 07:22 PM	#20
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 1,796	Times are changing....even the Ladies will be wearing "Green Jackets" at Augusta.

August 22, 2012, 09:24 PM	#23
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 968	It's been decades in VT since 'Ladies Night' was legal in any venue...Or 'Happy Hour' for that matter... And we don't ask anyone's permission to carry open or concealed...