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Old August 21, 2012, 04:22 PM   #1
BarryLee
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Optics??

Ok, forgive me ahead of time I know this is a little vague and wide-open. I just purchased a Colt LE6920 and would like to add some type of “optic” to the gun; but must admit I am a little overwhelmed by the choices.

The gun has a rail and the standard AR15 type front sight along with a Magpul flip up rear sight. I want to maintain the existing sights and even set up to co-witness if possible. I will most likely use the gun for more “up-close” shooting than anything else.

So, Initially I had thought about a basic reflex sight, but after looking it appears for not much more I can get a decent holographic sight which I understand to be a better choice. I also see various other options such as the ACOG and just basic scopes. I also see setups including holographic sight with additional magnifiers installed.

So, is there a good WEB site or other resource I might consult to help sort through these options? Is there sort of a first step that I should consider? Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old August 21, 2012, 04:37 PM   #2
sailskidrive
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Trijicon SRS...

I also have an EOtech XPS and an Aimpoint Comp4; this beats both of them hands down.

Quote:
I also see setups including holographic sight with additional magnifiers installed.
The problem with the EOtech and Vortex magnifiers are that they are heavy and have poor eye relief.

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Old August 21, 2012, 04:52 PM   #3
RT
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Check out the Aimpoint PRO or H-1.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=2561
Also consider a 1-4x scope such as something like the Vortex Viper PST.
http://www.sportoptics.com/vortexPST-14ST-M.aspx
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Old August 21, 2012, 05:30 PM   #4
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How much you want to spend? The ACOG's and other high end sights are wonderful. But I'm using a much less expensive Leupold 1-4X scope on mine and it meets my needs. The Magpul sight sets under the scope and is quickly accessed with QD rings on the scope.
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Old August 21, 2012, 06:23 PM   #5
BarryLee
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Quote:
How much you want to spend?
Well, I have no plans to spend a grand and would really like to stay under $500. However, I guess I spend what is needed to make the right choice it just will take me longer to save for the purchase.
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Old August 21, 2012, 08:56 PM   #6
Basement-Gunsmith-Z
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I'd go with an aimpoint. They are light, and have a super long battery life.
If you want magnification I suggest a weaver 1-5x24.
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:30 PM   #7
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under $500, go with a Vortex SPARC...if you are willing to save up, go with the H-1
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:37 PM   #8
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Trijicon Reflex



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Old August 21, 2012, 10:26 PM   #9
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First question is are you wanting a close quarters/fast target acquisition or a longer range more precision optic.

If its the first then for me the Aimpoint PRO beats anything else for the money.

If its the second then there are a lot of choices that will get the job done, but Nikon, Vortex, Leupold are probably your top three.
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Old August 22, 2012, 03:55 AM   #10
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for less than $500 i'd say aimpoint.
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Old August 22, 2012, 07:20 AM   #11
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The holographic/dot sights should be evaluated as "improved" single plane iron sights.

If you can hit them with iron sights, you can do it with the dot sights with the advantage of low light use and faster/single plane acquisition. Keep both eyes open, focus on the target, if the dot is on the target, pull the trigger.

These shine in the 100 yards in on moving targets or while you are moving.

I have tried Aimpoint, Eotech XPS, Trijicon TR24 & Trijicon TA33 ACOG.

I prefer the Aimpoint over all of them.

I don't like magnified optics on a "fighting gun" because if I am using a rifle for "fighting" I am doing it defensively (ie me moving, them moving)
and most likely reactively and probably at night or in low light.

I didn't like magnified optics for moving targets or odd "jackass" positions as head position becomes much more important so that you can actually see through the eyebox. The TA33 was probably the best at this but even with it, I would sometimes get no view through it, particularly from prone.

I view magnified optics a "offensive" optics. They are better used where you are the aggressor attempting make shots on realtively stationary targets who are mostly unaware of your presence. (Like hunting)

If you decide to go with a red dot type optic, make sure you use it right. Both eyes open, looking at the target, not looking through the optic focusing on the dot like you do with a magnified optic.

Caveat: If you have bad astigmatism you need to look through one before you buy it if you can. Sometimes astigmatism can make the dot do weird things.

This is a good article that Zak Smith did a while ago.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/fight...for-the-ar-15/
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Old August 22, 2012, 09:36 AM   #12
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Not to hijack this thread too much, but what's the difference between reflex and holographic sights? I always refer to them as simply "red-dots" although this might sometimes be a misnomer. I haven't played with too many red-dots, so I don't know what I'm missing, if anything. I did use an M68 (aimpoint?) and occasionally an Eotech.
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Old August 22, 2012, 11:04 AM   #13
Crow Hunter
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A holographic sight, like an Eotech, uses a laser to project an image on a surface that you can see through. Like the heads up display in a fighter aircraft. Although the light you technically see is a reflection, they are usually referred to as holographic sights. This is why the Eotech can still be used, even if the glass is cracked, it is also why the battery life is much lower.

A red dot sight, like an Aimpoint, uses a pinpoint LED and the dot you see is a reflection of the dot as it shines on an angled glass surface with certain passband coatings. This is why the battery life is so much higher than other sights as LEDs require very little power to run.

This idea was first used in the Vietnam war with the Armson Occluded Eye Gunsight. The red dot was reflected onto a black enclosed "box". With both eyes open the brain super imposed the image of the dot into the view of the non occluded eye. The problem with this is the effect of phoria, which varies from person to person. So if I grabbed your gun that shot POA/POI to the dot for you, it might be 4 or 5 inches to the left or right for me, depending on my eye shape and position.

They were actually used in a very famous POW recovery raid if I remember correctly.
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Old August 22, 2012, 11:14 AM   #14
BarryLee
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Quote:
I prefer the Aimpoint over all of them.
Just curious which specific Aimpoint you prefer? The Aimpoint PRO looks like a good deal especially when you consider that the mount is included, but I wonder if I should consider spending a few extra dollars and getting one of the M2 or M3 models.
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Old August 22, 2012, 11:52 AM   #15
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The Pro wasn't on the market when I got mine. I got the M4S in a Larue mount.

If I had to do it over again, I would take a very hard look at the Pro.

What I like about the M4 is the AA battery and the 80,000 hrs of life and the ability to get high quality clear flip up scope caps (Aimpoint brand).

One catch with all of these optics is that the battery life quoted is NOT at the highest setting. It is at a lower setting.

I think the M4 life is on a setting of 12 out of 16. That setting isn't visible outside in direct sunlight (works fine indoors and is almost too bright at night, I keep it set on 11 for "night time ops". I have to have it set on a 14 or 15 to see it if I am using it outside in full sun. Assuming that it is just a linear decrease in battery usage, not exponential, it is only 6,000 or 7,000 hrs at a higher setting.

A lot of people whos opinions that I greatly respect (and who have alot more experience than I)suggest the PRO or the C3 as the best value.
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Old August 22, 2012, 12:22 PM   #16
BarryLee
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Thanks Crow Hunter
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Old August 22, 2012, 06:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
First question is are you wanting a close quarters/fast target acquisition or a longer range more precision optic.
This.

If I only wanted close quarters, I'd go with the Aimpoint Micro.

For versatility, there are plenty of 1-4x scopes which are a great compromise.

My son shoots long range with his Grendel, has a 3-10x Vortex and a mini red-dot mounted alongside on a 45 degree angle on a Warne RAMP mount.

It all depends on what you want to do with it.
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Old August 22, 2012, 07:02 PM   #18
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I have an Aimpoint PRO. They are by far the best deal you can get on a high quality red dot optic. They can be had for under $400 new and that includes a quality quick detach mount (dunno why some people are so quick to replace it). The PRO also has a battery life of 3-5 of constantly being left on and batteries are specialised but cheap. It also can be used with NVGs, which is usually something you pay extra for in an optic like this (on the off chance you have the oppurtunity to use NVGs; but everyone seems to buy the T1 Aimpoint over the H1, even though they don't have access to them and the T1 costs more). The rear lens cover is clear so the optic can be used with both covers closed; which turned out to be a really simple but nice feature.

Jumbled paragraph short, am I happy with my PRO? Absolutely.
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Old August 23, 2012, 07:00 PM   #19
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Aimpoint CompML2


EOTech XPS


Aimpoint T-1
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Old August 24, 2012, 08:34 AM   #20
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I know there has been a lot of talk about Aimpoint, EOTech and Trijicon. But, has anyone used or heard much about the Bushnell First Strike?

http://www.bushnell.com/products/sco...reddot/730005/

It's a reflex sight and it has an automatically adjusting brightness. It's very small so I'm not sure what you guys would think about it. I have never used a red dot (reflex or holographic) sight either...
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Old August 24, 2012, 09:43 AM   #21
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I have an Eotech XPS-2 which i love, the only problem is battery life. I think for the money the Aimpoints are the way to go. Very good quality and excellent battery life. Just my 2 cents
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Old August 24, 2012, 11:17 AM   #22
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I would go with the Aimpoint PRO. It is $400 and comes with a co-witness mount, and does anything you would ever want a red dot to do: 2 MOA dot, night vision settings, 3 year battery life, and the same durability that all Aimpoints share, which makes them the choice for military issued red dots.
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Old August 24, 2012, 11:18 AM   #23
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Well, I have no plans to spend a grand and would really like to stay under $500. However, I guess I spend what is needed to make the right choice it just will take me longer to save for the purchase.
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Aimpoint PRO. They're frequently on sale (PSA had them for $350 last week) for under $400 and are rugged, hold zero, relatively light, and the battery will last for years in the on position.


If you're looking for something a little lighter---a used Aimpoint T1 is probably the way to go. I got mine for under $500 with a Larue mount. Deals are out there if you're patient.

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Old August 24, 2012, 12:05 PM   #24
pturner67
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Changed my mind. Forgot you can get an Aimpoint for under $500. I like my SPARC (at $200) but go with Aimpoint if you feel like spending $400.
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
I wonder if I should consider spending a few extra dollars and getting one of the M2 or M3 models.
The Aimpoint PRO is basically a 2 MOA dot CompM3 with the the QRP2 mount included in the package. It is superior to the CompM2, since it has a much longer battery life.

As far as I'm concerned, the Aimpoint PRO makes the CompM2 and CompM3 pretty much pointless (unless you just have to have a bigger 4 MOA dot).

Aimpoint has a great product comparison tool on their website.
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