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Old March 13, 2013, 06:14 PM   #1
ericoro
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Help identify a german drilling

My family is trying to investigate about this German gun, (I attached photos)
Can you help me to identify it and its potential value

It is stamped on the side of the barrel: Flussstahl Krupp Essen
This is a "drilling", a German three-barreled gun/rifle

I think made in Essen ?

The (2) barrels have the proof stamps:

Flussstahl Krupp Essen
Nitro: ((nitro is smokeless powder, instead of black), 1912 - 1939)
5196: (Serial number)
7,8mm/57 (caliber of the rifle ?)
4/26 (date of manufacture April/1926 ?)
Germany
U
12 (12-gauge shotgun ? Caliber of the shotgun shell?)
13
Crown over S: (German shotgun proof, 1891 -1939)
Crown over W: (choked barrels)
Crown over U: (proof approved in assemble form. German definitive proof, 1891 - 1939 A final inspection mark and dates

the gun from 1891 to 1939.)
Crown over G: (German rifle proof, 1891 - 1939 Crown G designating a solid projectile)

Other Details:
Much fine engraving over the gun. (flowers and two deer on each side)
Place to store ammunition in shotgun butt (Bullet trap ?), a safety fire, a nice forestock, and moveable sight
All in perfect state of preservation and running

Thanks for all your help,






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Old March 13, 2013, 06:51 PM   #2
James K
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Fluid Steel Krupp Essen identifies the steel used in the barrels and the steel company that provided the barrel blanks. Krupp itself did not make small arms or sporting guns.

If there is no maker's name, it is likely the product of the so-called "guild system" of small shops, where one shop made barrels, another actions, and so on, while yet another shop fitted and assembled the parts into a functioning gun.

On the various proof marks you are essentially correct except that the crown/G is the proof for rifled barrels, not specifically for a solid projectile. The shotgun barrels are 12 gauge (a bit unusual if the gun were made for sale in Germany); the 7,8x57 would indicate a rifle barrel of 8x57JR or 8x5JRS, probably the latter at that date. That would be the rimmed version of the German military cartridge.

There are two problems in trying to evaluate the gun. One is its "no name" source, but worse is its condition. It appears to be fairly heavily rusted and pitted, to the extent that I think any attempt to remove the rust would ruin the appearance of the gun. Ordinarily a gun like that could bring $5k or more; in its current condition, I would think that gun might bring $1200.

Jim
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Old March 13, 2013, 07:33 PM   #3
mapsjanhere
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Be aware that the chambering is most likely 12/65, not the 12/70 common today (it should be marked with 70 if it were). While the 12/70 might fit they are not a good diet for the gun. 8x57 IRS is a great elk and boar cartridge, and is sold in a Sellier&Bellot (Check made) load typically for less than $ 20 per 20 in the US.
I agree with the valuation, somewhere in the $1000 to 1500 range. It could use a good restorative cleaning (hunting guns are less critical to keep in "as made" condition), and as JK said without a marker's name it is only its current state that counts.
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Old March 14, 2013, 07:59 AM   #4
ericoro
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Thank you very much for the help you are giving me

I can add that I'm looking up the serial number some initials: "WK" and very close a "LK"




Regarding cleaning the weapon, I preferred not to touch it, because as a weapon of almost 100 years, there will surely be some special product for this. (Please let me know if you know any good cleaning technique)

Again, thank you very much, and if they have more information I really thank for that
Best
Eric

Last edited by ericoro; March 14, 2013 at 08:40 AM.
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Old March 14, 2013, 08:54 AM   #5
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Is there anything at all marked along the top rib?
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:45 AM   #6
PetahW
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.

IMHO, the "LK" is the barrel maker's mark - most likely Louis Kelber, who AFAIK was active near Suhl.

That mark was used by the Gebrüder Kelber barrelmaking company, founded by Louis Kelber in 1894, owned then by Louis, Robert and Wilhelm Kelber (WK).

They usually used either an L stamp or an LK.

In 1927 the "Gebr. Kelber" company was dissolved, but both Louis and Wilhelm Kelber started again on their own, Louis using the "LK" stamp and Wilhelm the well-known "WK".

Your Drilling appears to have been made the year before they started separate companies.


.

Last edited by PetahW; March 14, 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:51 AM   #7
mapsjanhere
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ericoro, I should have said "professional cleaning". All you can do is give it a good rub down with ballistol (it's a German gun, give it what it's used to).
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:07 AM   #8
ericoro
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Wow! thank you very much to all for the help you are giving me.
I'm very excited to know the whole story.

Thanks very much!!
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