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Old August 9, 2012, 09:59 AM   #1
g.willikers
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Black Horn 209 powder in revolvers?

Has anyone tried BH 209 powder in cap and ball revolvers?
The manufacturer's web site says it is supposed to be used with regular shotgun primers.
They say that the 209 primers for muzzle loaders don't always work.
But they do have a chart for using this powder in cartridge guns, so it all sounds contradicting.
Are C&B pistol primers hot enough to work?
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Old August 9, 2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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NO.
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Old August 9, 2012, 12:03 PM   #3
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Tell you the truth...I had been tempted when Blackhorn first appeared on the market.

However, like Hawg said, you should not. It is designed only for use in inline muzzleloaders.

Blackhorn will only give you much powerful results when a large amount is used, as in an inline where "magnum" charges of up to 150 grains are commonly used. Even if you are able to get ignition in a pistol, I doubt 30-40 grains of that stuff will be any different than the same amount of H777 or Pyrodex.

And cartridges? Well, cartridge primers are much more powerful and produce a lot more energy than a standard percussion cap. So for use in cartridges, it would be reasonable. But then, unless all I have is Blackhorn on hand, I think I would use regular smokeless powder or black powder for my cartridges.
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Old August 9, 2012, 02:25 PM   #4
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You wont get ignition with a percussion cap. It's designed to be fired with a 209 primer, however centerfire primers are hot enough to set it off. For what the stuff costs I don't really understand anybody using it.
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Old August 9, 2012, 03:12 PM   #5
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It can be ignited with a percussion cap if at least a 5 grain booster charge of conventional powder is loaded first. But I haven't heard much about how it performs in a C&B revolver when the booster charge is properly placed. And I haven't tried any of it myself.
Blackhorn 209 is an extremely fluffy powder. The cheapest way to get it is to call Ed's Gun Shop and ask for Carlos. Including delivery, his price may actually be less expensive than the average retail price, but the minimum order is 2 containers.

http://www.edsgunshop.com/

Some feedback by a poster who appears to have improperly placed too small of a booster charge directly under the nipple of his ROA when loaded with an unknown volume of BH 209:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....64&postcount=6

Link to info. about using at least a 5 grain booster charge:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=blackhorn+209

Last edited by arcticap; August 9, 2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old August 9, 2012, 05:54 PM   #6
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I haven't tried in in C&B (nor will I) ... but I did use up a canister in .45 Colt. Worked great there. Not as energetic as 777.... But cleanup is wonderful. Wish it was cheaper.
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Old August 9, 2012, 09:22 PM   #7
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How does Blackhorn compare to 777 or Pyrodex as far as velocity achieved and cleanup?
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Old August 10, 2012, 08:38 AM   #8
Rachen
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Quote:
How does Blackhorn compare to 777 or Pyrodex as far as velocity achieved and cleanup?
Blackhorn has no sulfur content in any way or form, so it cleans just as easily as H777. Pyrodex would be a bit more messier because there are certain compounds in it like perchlorates which also happen to be the main constituent in corrosive ComBloc milsurp primers. (I was going to say "easily cleans up with water", but the fouling created by regular black powder also cleans up with plain water, if you know what you are doing)

As to power, Blackhorn claims to be more powerful than H777 but only in increased charges. In an inline loaded with a magnum load of 150 grains, Blackhorn will produce higher velocities than the same charge of H777, but in a cartridge with only 30-40 grains, I doubt Blackhorn will produce significantly higher energy than H777, Swiss, or Pyrodex.
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:04 AM   #9
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My only experience has been with black and Pyrodex so I don't know anything first hand about the power of the others but Pyrodex and black both are really easy to clean.
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:46 AM   #10
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BH209 is basically much cleaner due to it being a progressive smokeless black powder substitute. However it needs to be cleaned with a conventional petroleum base smokeless powder solvent. There can be some hard fouling in the nipple hole of inline rifle breech plugs than can require using a drill bit to remove by hand, as well as a fair amount of blow back residue in some types of inline actions. But there are ways to tighten up the fit between the 209 primer and receiver, and also the fit of the 209 primer within the nipple that can greatly reduce the blow back residue. But generally barrel swabbing is not needed for many shots when loading tight sabots which is why it's considered to be the cleanest powder.

Last edited by arcticap; August 10, 2012 at 11:06 AM.
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Old August 10, 2012, 04:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
BH209 is basically much cleaner due to it being a progressive smokeless black powder substitute
In my original Vaquero, I can shoot 25 rounds or so of 777 shells before the cylinder starts to bind up. With BH209, I shot a box of 50 and still no binding.... A LOT cleaner.
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Old August 13, 2012, 06:12 AM   #12
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I loaded up some .44Magnum cap and ball loads using about 24 grains (weight, not volume) in a .44 magnum case and a .433 round ball with the crimp just over the roundball's maximum diameter. This is a slightly compressed load.
This chronographed at about 1100 fps with one of the lowest velocity variations I have ever seen. They were all within about 10 fps of each other.

I used a Smith & Wesson model 29 with 6.5 inch barrel.

Shotgun primers are not any more powerful than large pistol or rifle primers, it's just that you don't see many muzzleloaders designed to use these primers.
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Old August 13, 2012, 02:29 PM   #13
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BH 209 is a Nitrocellulose Smokeless Powder. Western Powders recommends using a nitro-solvent for clean-up as Articap has posted, and( unless they have changed their formula lately) it does contain sulfur. I assume the reason that Western doesn't refer to it as a smokeless powder is because almost every powder gun out there(except for the Savage ML) has a warning stamped on them, not to use smokeless powder.
I only shot the stuff a couple of times, and it shot very well, but it is Waaay to expensive for the small differences between it, and other propellants out there for me.
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Old August 17, 2012, 11:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
that Western doesn't refer to it as a smokeless powder is because almost every powder gun out there(except for the Savage ML) has a warning stamped on them, not to use smokeless powder.
Well that is quite odd, for that reason, because if you look at a can of Pyrodex, it is labeled as "Smokeless Powder". It has come to agreement that Hodgdon did that in order to let Pyrodex travel more freely through interstate commerce. However, wouldn't that give a newbie to BP sports the heebie jeebies when they see "smokeless powder" on a can of Pyrodex?
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Old August 19, 2012, 11:14 PM   #15
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I just don't understand folks wanting to get into bp shooting using clean powder. Most muzzleloaders and cap & ball pistols shoot better groups with the real bp or Pyrodex.
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Old August 20, 2012, 11:08 AM   #16
Wild Bill Bucks
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I think they use the term "Premium Muzzleloading Propellant" on the can, so they can distance themselves from the words "
smokeless powder" so that it keeps the newbies from being scared off.
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Old August 20, 2012, 01:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
I just don't understand folks wanting to get into bp shooting using clean powder. Most muzzleloaders and cap & ball pistols shoot better groups with the real bp or Pyrodex.
Doesn't make sense does it? Smoke and fouling are part of it. If you don't like it get something modern. Nothing nostalgic about shooting clean powder in a gun designed for dirty powder.
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