The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 19, 2012, 09:12 AM   #1
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
Mec 600 adjustment question - photo attached

Thanks to everyone for help in my previous post. I finally tried to make a live shell this morning and encountered the following two issues. I believe that the final crimp stage is set too deep as it is crimping into the hull. I am also getting a bulge closer to the base. Both are visible in the attached photo.

I am looking at the troubleshooting guide in my manual now but the old black and white problem photos are a little hard to see. I would like to hear from the great people here before I attempt any adjustments and perhaps make the situation worse.

Thanks!
jclayto is offline  
Old August 19, 2012, 10:19 AM   #2
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
I should add that my cases are Winchester AA light's. I am very new to this to I apologize if this is a dumb question - I am looking at the spent AA shells and they appear to be 8 point crimps. I just looked at my crimp starter and one of the finished crimped shells and it looks like it may be 6 point? Would that cause the crimp problem?
jclayto is offline  
Old August 19, 2012, 01:39 PM   #3
Shootest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 652
Yea, it looks like you used the wrong crimp starter. Tell more about your load. What wad, powder charge, shot charge? Win AA have always been good cases for me.
__________________
The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic.
NRA Life Member
Shootest is offline  
Old August 19, 2012, 07:24 PM   #4
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
Shootest,

I am using AA hulls, 1oz Lawarance #8 and Claybuster Lightning wads CB4100B's. I am running a #25 bushing with clay's powder. I am hoping for a very light recoil load for CAS.

Thanks in advance for any input.
jclayto is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 09:46 AM   #5
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
#25 bushing does not tell me the charge weight - hopefully, you are using a scale to verify the load. ADDED: - the chart shows a 25 dropping about 13.9 which is about 3 grains below the normal for a 1200 fps target load. If you want to reduce recoil, start by lowering your layload to 7/8 or even 3/4 oz shot. How far away are the targets that you shoot in CAS? I am reloading a 12 gauge load with a 28 gauge load of shot - 3/4, using 18 grains of Red Dot - like shooting a 22 - AND it saves me a LOT of money - a little more powder is cheaper than shot. Comparing our loads, I get six free per box....

On an ideal crimp, the depth should be about the thickness of a nickel, perfectly round and uniform. AA hulls use an 8 point crimp starter.

AA hulls in 12 and 20 have recently fallen out of favor with most reloaders as Winchester's hulls can have varying height issues. This can result in bulges and other unwanted defects in finished rounds. Remington hulls are preferred - just something to consider as you move forward in reloading. In 28 and 410, however, it is reversed - the AA's are the hulls to use.

You can try adjusting the cam on the crimp starter to see if that helps. One other thing is to go www.shotgunworld.com and do searches for Curly No-hair threads on MEC tutorials - he should work for them as much as he has put into the pics and instructions on how to adjust anything, repair, and maintain them

Last edited by oneounceload; August 20, 2012 at 09:52 AM.
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 09:48 AM   #6
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
Thank you! Charge weight is 14.1 grains of clays. I will check out the information you suggested.
jclayto is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 01:18 PM   #7
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,420
I think you have a bunch of stuff going on here...

the wrinkle in the case ...tells me the column of components might be too long / and your crimp is way too deep ...causing that wrinkle.

The wad you're picking to use ..is kind of a universal wad ...according to claybuster for 7/8 oz, 1 oz , and 1 1/8 oz...but sometimes these universal wads, in some hulls, end up being too long.

Your powder drop of 14.1 clays is way under the min published that I can find for a 1oz load ...so you may have ignition issues on top of everything else.

But you need to work on adjusting the crimp first of all on the hulls...and I'd suggest making sure you're at least dropping powder at the published minimums / vs experimenting ..... it may be ok, if you're shooting a break open gun ...but I worry about bad ignition and getting a wad stuck in the barrel ..and then firing another shell behind a blocked barrel and you getting hurt...
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 06:26 PM   #8
Method
Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2012
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 73
I had the same bulge on the bottom of my shells recently. I'm using a Sizemaster, but the crimping stations should be the same. Here's how I fixed it:

- Check the crimping assembly at the final station.
- Just above the plastic crimper, look for the small nut which secures that particular station in place.
- If that bolt is loose, the assembly won't stay perfectly straight and can create deformities at the bottom of the shell.
Method is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 07:09 PM   #9
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
BigJim, thanks! I too found that it is below min but it's the recipe given to me by several of the cowboy shooters in my club. We are just knocking down steel plates at a few yards so as long as it ignites, I guess it does not need much. The load was supposed to closely replicate AA featherlights.

Method, good call on checking the die. It was loose. I am going to take the machine up to a friends house that has the same machine so that we can go through it together.
jclayto is offline  
Old August 21, 2012, 09:08 PM   #10
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
The crimping dies SHOULD be able to move freely so they can align with the skived hull - the nut can be tight, but do not do anything to restrict the precrimp and final crimp from moving freely
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 21, 2012, 09:51 PM   #11
Crunchy Frog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 402
I am definitely going to take a look at the MEC tutorials. It's a pretty simple machine but I find the factory manual less than clear.
Crunchy Frog is offline  
Old August 21, 2012, 10:34 PM   #12
Idaho Spud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2010
Posts: 269
Also make sure on the pre-crimp station the hole made will allow a pencil to just slip thru. Your crimp depth looks OK to me, I like 'em like that.
Idaho Spud is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 06:51 AM   #13
Red Eye
Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2011
Location: Balto., MD.
Posts: 40
I've been shooting CAS for about 13 years.....here's my recipe for a light 12 ga load.

Win AA hulls
Win 209 primers
Mec # 25 bushing throws 14.1 gr of Clays ( you are correct there)
Go with 7/8 oz load, using Claybuster CBO178 wads
7 1/2 or 8 shot

If you want to stick to the 1 oz load, switch to the Downrange DRA-12, 1 oz wads. They fit the inside tapered Win AA-HS hulls better than the Claybusters. The Claybusters are a "hair" too tall and thats why you're getting the "wrinkle" towards the lower portion of the hull as its trying to smash the wad deeper to close the crimp.

I experienced the same thing when I was making some 1 oz. sporting clays loads. For all 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz loads, go Downrange, they fit better.

Last edited by Red Eye; August 22, 2012 at 07:01 AM.
Red Eye is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 09:07 AM   #14
jclayto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2005
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 550
Thank you to everyone for all of the input. I took the machine over to a friends house last night and we were able to get everything up and running. As suspected the biggest culprit was the 6 point crimp starter. We switched it out with his 8 point and most of the issues went away. We also fine tuned the wad seating depth, made some slight adjustments the the crimp die and gave the inside of the crimp die a good cleaning. The machine had not been used in sometime so there was a lot rust/gunk buildup inside. I was able to load 100 shells with no problem.

I have some 0178 wads here. At some point in the future I will pick up an adjustable charge bar or a 7/8 bar and give those a try.
jclayto is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 12:09 PM   #15
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,420
Its always in the details....but now you've learned some things about your press...so its all good.
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 06:33 PM   #16
Crunchy Frog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 402
Look out, you have just qualified as the "MEC Doctor". Next time I have issues I am calling YOU!

Glad you got it sorted out.

I'll ditto the tip about adjusting your pre-crimp so that it leaves an opening about the size of a pencil. That helped me a while back.

Also once you have the final crimp setting where you want it, make sure that the lock ring for the adjustment setting is snugged up firmly, and check it periodically. That was the first problem I had with my MEC; the crimp setting got loose and started to "walk".
Crunchy Frog is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09852 seconds with 7 queries