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Old November 14, 2013, 09:58 AM   #1
skizzums
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pure lead

hey guys, i have been collecting wheel weights for awhile and seperate the clip-ons from the softer stick-ons. i find myself with about 50-50 of the pure and the clip ons. since i only use UP TO 20% of the pure in my mix for the 9mm, do you think it would be appropriate to use more pure, like 50%, in the mix for 158 wadcutters. my thinking is that it wont be too much trouble since moving at such a lower speed than the 9mm. i am just looking for a way to make my lead go a little further and not be stuck with 10 pounds of stick ons and 200 pounds of pure that i cant use.

thanks
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Old November 14, 2013, 11:11 AM   #2
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I use 50/50 for most of my .357 bullets with regular lube or Alox too.
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Old November 14, 2013, 12:20 PM   #3
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very cool. thanks beagle
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Old November 14, 2013, 03:01 PM   #4
FrankenMauser
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I like my wadcutters to be around BHN 8-9.
To get there with clip-on WWs, it's a 3:1 mix (3 lbs lead for 1 lb clip-on ingots).
If fill-out isn't quite good enough, add 1 ounce of tin per 4 lbs of alloy. (Takes you to just under 3% tin, with 95/5 solder; or just over 3% with pure tin.)
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Old November 14, 2013, 03:13 PM   #5
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I do not think I am following your OP. But I generally mix two parts WW to one part pure lead. My WW come from almost all old clip on and my pure is from old plumbers lead. Works good for me. The only problem is I am going to run out before long and it looks like I will have to start buying lead. I am having a hard time deciding what alloy to buy and where to buy it from.
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Old November 17, 2013, 02:16 PM   #6
skizzums
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i did 60/40 and they filled out good. havent shot any yet, but they sure do look pretty.
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Old November 20, 2013, 07:22 PM   #7
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Just a thought. Here's a site I us to make different alloys with the material I have. Maybe this Link will help too extend your stash.

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Old November 20, 2013, 08:34 PM   #8
David Bachelder
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I use two parts pure lead to one part wheel weights. This usually gets me a BHN of 10 to 10.5
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Old December 13, 2013, 01:08 AM   #9
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I am water dropping about 2 parts scrap plumbing lead with 1 part WW and getting between 18.6 and 20.9 bhn @ 24 hours after cast. I am assuming the plumbing lead is pure, but not sure- it's iron pipe lead poured fitting lead.

The trace arsenic from the WW's allows fairly easy heat treatment. I start dropping when the lead takes a second or two to harden on the sprue plate, and cool the mold when it gets longer than that to harden.

For me the water drop is key so I can stretch out my WW's to alloy to use the plumbing lead. I suspect the same process would work fine for sticky weight/WW alloy.

PS this same mix dropped on a wet towel was getting me about 9.5 bhn for comparison. It probably would have age hardened a bit, but not enough for my preference.
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Old December 13, 2013, 09:00 AM   #10
Rifleman1776
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Don't count on any wheel weight to be any particular alloy. Even clip ons are often not pure lead. My tire guy is a avid shooter/reloader. He tells me there are many typs of wheel weights these days and only testing can tell you which is what.
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Old December 13, 2013, 08:37 PM   #11
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Most WW's are not pure lead as far as I know. Their composition might vary a bit, but will average out quite a bit when smelted. I'm guessing that was a typo. Stick on's usually are pure lead.

2% antimony, .5% tin, and trace antimony is the most common clip WW alloy.
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Old December 13, 2013, 11:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
I am water dropping about 2 parts scrap plumbing lead with 1 part WW and getting between 18.6 and 20.9 bhn @ 24 hours after cast.

For me the water drop is key so I can stretch out my WW's to alloy to use the plumbing lead.

PS this same mix dropped on a wet towel was getting me about 9.5 bhn for comparison.
Wow, I didn't know water dropping could make that much difference in hardness. So if the ratio of (2 pb/1 WWs) will give an 18 BHN with water propping, would that be acceptable for 9mm? Or would a 1/1 ratio be better considering the higher pressures? I'm planning on starting with 44 special, then moving on to 9 mm.
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Old December 14, 2013, 02:39 PM   #13
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my stick ons may not be 100% pure, but def close, the ingots sink in the middle like a bad souffle and they are much darker gray with flake like crystals, it looks identical to the ingots i pour which i know are 100% lead, ww are lighter gray and they fill out flat when poured, im pretty confident that stick ons are almost pure lead
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Old December 15, 2013, 01:13 AM   #14
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I was referring to rifleman's quote that even clip on's aren't always pure lead. I think he meant stick ons. Just a typo I suspect

As to water drop, it makes quite a difference if there is antimony *and* trace arsenic as clip weights have. A small amount of tin is needed to keep the antimony in solution if I understand right, and this configuration pretty much defines clip weights. LA silhouette club is awesome for info.

Water drop makes a HUGE difference though. I highly recommend the process if you want to stretch out WW alloy. It's a bit seat of the pants for drop temp, but when the mold gets hot enough, you can sort of establish a set temp based on the sprue hardening time.

I do wish I had some tin for my mix though. I suspect my plumbing lead has little or none and WW's don't have much.

As to using this mix for 9mm, I load 9mm, .40, and .357 sig and would not use this mix for them. These are all higher pressure (30,000-40,000 psi). Much higher than .45 acp that I am loading with this mix. I was thinking that I can't really get away with mixing the plumbing lead in for fear of dropping the hardness too much. In short, I highly doubt it would be adequate hardness. .45 acp for context is more like 20,000 psi on the upper end. When I worked up my .45 load, the hottest ones leaded the barrel, so it's *just* hard enough. But I am using power pistol for this load though and PP is somewhat finicky with cast boolits.

My wheel weight only mix (with just a little bit of stick-on lead) water dropped to 26, but I have to pay for WW's. That would barely be hard enough to survive 9mm. You can heat treat to around 30 bhn with just clip weights, but it requires a bit of science and a toaster oven

Conventional wisdom currently holds that powdercoating still requires the same hardness, but I suspect it may be wrong. Soft bullets lead up the barrel when the charge pressure overcomes the tensile strength of the boolit and gas cuts. Since PC boolits are well protected from gas cutting, in theory the hardness is of little concern. Similar to plated bullets and for the same reasons. I intend to give it a try with .357 sig as the test, but need to get a new mold for it since the long ogive of my rn mold in .356" is too long to get the OAL right for .357 sig.

Oh, one last note: My numbers may seem exaggerated due to how I took them: I got 9.5 after the boolit was cool to the touch after air cooling. They would have hardened up more by 24 hours- or even an hour. I don't know how much but I realized right away that it would not be enough, so I didn't wait, but dumped them back in the pot to start water dropping. So it's likely that the difference between air cooling with my mix is more like 11 or 12 bhn for air cooled and 18-20 for water drop. At six hours I was worried when I was testing in the range of 15 bhn but it continued to climb.
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