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Old October 25, 2012, 01:22 PM   #76
Metal god
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It lost zero at the range . I was shooting it in the morning to zero it in . Was having a little fun then put it down for a bit . When I started shooting it again a couple hours later it was shooting off a little high abouy 2" at 50 yards . I just re-zeroed and it stayed on target the rest of the day !00 or so rounds . when I got home I look it off and put it back on the 22 . I have sence put it back on the AR and only shot it once about 100 rounds . I did leave it on the gun to see if it will lose zero sitting in my safe . I have not taken it out again yet .

Im sorry but I can't give you a definitive yes or no yet . I would also ad I have not ran it very hard yet or beat it up so there are a few questions I have as well . I'll be going out next week sometime . I will see then .

I have been hearing and reading alot of good things about this red-dot on ARs . I do not own one but I hear they are very good on the AR platform for the money http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Troph...shnell+red+dot
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Old October 25, 2012, 03:39 PM   #77
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Well, I'm sorta leery to order your UTG DS3840 now.

This link http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/24_7/ takes you to an archive. Scroll to the bottom and see they gave a top rating to the Tasco BKRD30 ($50).

I searched Amazon and pulled up these scopes, but I can't tell which one the test is referring to, since they all seem to have BKRD30 in their description. Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...=tasco+BKRD+30

Do you have any idea which one got the top honor from Gun-Tests?? And, do you think they would hold up the an AR 5.56/.223 light recoil?
Thanks!
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Old October 25, 2012, 07:24 PM   #78
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You know , I have no idea which red-dot is what . They all look the same but have different disciptions . This one says you can use it on shotguns up to 3" shells . http://www.amazon.com/Tasco-30mm-Rif...=tasco+BKRD+30 Shotguns have a heck of alot more recoil then an AR .

This one says the same but is almost 10mm bigger in diameter which should give you a bigger field of view http://www.amazon.com/Tasco-Red-Dot-...=tasco+BKRD+30.

The cool thing IMO about lower end products is you can always put them on one of your other guns ( 22s , shotgun ). Thats what I do .

I've got to tell you though . A 5 MOA dot is pretty big . That will cover up a 5" area of your target at 100 yards . If your shooting at something like a squirrel or some other small animal like that . You may not even see it behind the dot . I don't want to be discouraging cus all the lower end red-dots have a big dot . I just wanted to point that out to you .
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:55 PM   #79
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Cheap AR advice.

The cheapest way to buy an AR, without building, is to buy a complete lower, $300, a complete upper $400 with a bolt carrier group. You can probably beat those prices.

Now, a $700 AR built like this is worth about $700. Don't let a salesman tell you it would be crap or some web freak tell you it will be super. If it breaks, it is on you to repair.

Get a 5.56 chamber. 223 Rem reamers have no place in basic AR's.

Name rifles have warranties.

Stag, Spikes, Delton, Model 1 Sales are all good brands. Spikes would be about the best and Model 1 the cheapest.

Ideally, you would get an EOTech, but you are asking cheap. A $50 red dot is usable. . .sort of.

Buying a $100 scope, $10 rings will leave you needing $50 risers. If you normally fancy $50 - $100 scopes, this should work here.

Using this advice, you would have a fine range gun. It would be yours as bottom rung AR's don't have much of a following. When they do, people like a brand name and to pay $900.
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Old October 26, 2012, 12:42 AM   #80
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1) I'm glad you brought that 5MOA up, as I'm not familiar enough with these red dots to know about that. I noticed the your UTG DS3848(that lost zero) in the Amazon description had the MOA as 4.0 in under the "Features" and then again on down under The Product Description it is listed as 3.5MOA. Does your dot seem too large?

2) Here's one that I looked at today http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Troph...burris+red+dot and later I remembered that it is the same one that Justice06RR had posted the link a little while back. It lists a 3M.O.A. under Product Description, and I'm guessing that is about the sise MOA that is needed? Do they come with any smaller MOA than 3? I wish it came with flip up lense covers, I guess you can buy them separate, that will fit? Maybe Justice will chime in here and tell what his experience has been with this RD scope?

3) EDIT I posted this a few seconds ago. The following is a quote from Justice from a while back also.
There are also Eotech's which are Holographic Red Dots. I highly recommend Eotech's for civilian use as it allows for true targat acquisition with both eyes open. With red dots you still have to close one eye sometimes.

I realize now that the only red dot I've looked thru before was a Holographic Red Dot. So, maybe that's really what I need, because I like the idea of shooting with both eyes open. But, now, can I find one that will fit my budget?

Thanks for all replies!
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Last edited by bulletproof; October 26, 2012 at 12:50 AM.
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Old October 26, 2012, 01:37 AM   #81
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Yea mine's kinda big and when I have it up real bright it has some starburst/hue around the dot that makes it seem bigger . I have always just kept it at the lowest setting I could and still see it . That seems to work really well .

I always have 2 TFL open While I'm replying so I can go back and look at the original post to make sure I'm answer everything . I just noticed your edit . If your looking to step up your budget .There will be a hole lot of other red-dots to consider . What may your new budget be ? If it's gone up to around $200 I have a few more ideas but if your still at $100 or less your on the right track

This is the cheapest Eotech I have found new .http://www.amazon.com/EOTech-512-A65...al+HOLOgraphic

The real bumer is it's been $370 for the last month and it just went up a couple days ago

This is real nice , you can beat the hell out these and they will hold zero http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...fle-optic.html
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Old October 26, 2012, 03:10 AM   #82
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Here are a few more at the higher price range . All of these are designed for the heavier recoiling guns and should work great on an AR

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...dot-optic.html -2 MOA dot

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-StrikeF...I3DW447MB2WDD1 --4 MOA dot

http://www.amazon.com/Sig-Sauer-Red-...+sauer+red+dot -- It does not look black but they say it is .

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/637...-ring-matte--I' --I'm just a big fan of tasco .
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:19 PM   #83
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you said: I always have 2 TFL open: Does that mean 2 Firingline Threads?

Just a quick reply to let you know that I've seen your posts. And, yes, it looks like I don't have much of a choice, cause it seems that the less expensive scopes/RD's won't suit. I don't want to have to return them, if possible. Now, I'm looking at $80-$100. Trying to keep the budget low, but, want a usable optic. I'll be bock, that's my Swartzneggar impression, but, u probably knew that.

Thanks.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:29 PM   #84
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Reference post by Utahhunting

Quote:
I will recommend the S&W M&P 15 Sport. $650 and comes with sites.
I appreciate the endorsement of the S&W.
I just bought a S&W M&P 15 Sport at our local CalRanch for $599 plus tax. No background check fee since I'm CCW, one Magpul magazine, iron Magpul flip-up sights... very nice weapon!

I'm about like Bulletproof, in age and proximity to the Grim Reaper. I want a 'just in case' gun (and for some fun with coyotes on the west desert).

I looked at lots of posts with about the same question as Bulletproof and the S&W came up as a common recommendation.

Good luck in the decision!
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Old October 26, 2012, 09:10 PM   #85
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Quote:
Does that mean 2 Firingline Threads?
No two internet explorers open with TFL open in both . one with the OP thread and the other is the one Im writing the the reply in . That way I can reference the OP with out closing my reply window . I was in the middle of replying when I went back to look at your last post to reference someting and saw your edit .

You may want to start a new thread about the lower end red-dots . You will get alot more hits with guy that have working knowlege of the products . Maybe even search TFL for one Im sure there out there .

Here is one http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hlight=red+dot

and another http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hlight=red+dot

you should still start your own with the specifics your looking for . $100 , 3 MOA or less , able to handle 223/5.56 recoil .
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:20 AM   #86
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OP: Other person, right?

Something I discovered recently is that when replying to a thread, you can scroll down below the text box and you will find the other responses. Then you would only have to open up one IE browser instead of 2.

Okay, it'll take me a while to read thru the thread links you provided, and then I might post a new thread if necessary.
Thanks.
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:33 AM   #87
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OP --( original post ) I also use OP when referring to the last post the original poster , posted . Holy cow now I'm confused

LOL now thats funny I never scrolled down before . Thanks that will help
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Old October 27, 2012, 05:59 AM   #88
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Quote:
Something I discovered recently is that when replying to a thread, you can scroll down below the text box and you will find the other responses. Then you would only have to open up one IE browser instead of 2.

....My life just got so much simpler....
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:30 PM   #89
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Well, glad I was able to finally give something back for all ya'lls help!!
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Old October 29, 2012, 01:09 AM   #90
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Hey, Justice06RR, below is a quote of yours from this thread located on Page 2.
A) Since my rifle came w/o sights, I should not need a riser for this scope to fit my M&P, is that correct?

B) And, out of curiosity, I've been seeing "Co-witness with your iron sights". To be sure I'm understanding this term would you or somebody fully explain for me.

C) I don't believe this Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 comes with flip up dust covers does it?

D) Is it parallax free?

Justice06RR said: Burris Trophy 1x Red dot : $85shipped from Amazon but you will need to buy the extra riser to effectively use backup iron sights. If you want a non-magnification optic this is the way to go. Affordable and funtional. My roomate has it and you can Co-witness with your iron sights.

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Troph...burris+red+dot
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Old October 29, 2012, 09:28 AM   #91
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hey whats up . To co-witness is to be looking through your iron sights and the red-dot at the same time . If all is done right you get this .




It is important The red-dot is set to the correct hight so it will match up to your iron sights If you plan to co-witness . I have flip up iron sights . First I zero the iron sights then flipped them down . Next I zero the red-dot and when you flip up your iron sights the red-dot should be sitting right on top of the front post . I don"t like to co-witness . All's it seems to do for me is put stuff in my field of view that does not really need to be there . It is cool how when done correctly everything lines up thow.
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Old October 29, 2012, 06:58 PM   #92
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Since I don't have any iron sights I don't have to worry about it. I was just curious about it. Thanks for the pic, that is pretty cool looking.
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Old October 29, 2012, 07:34 PM   #93
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I strongly recomend you put back up iron sights on it . When you buy the lower end red-dot they tend not to have an auto off . I went to the range once and when I turned my scope on ," NOTHING ".I had left it on oops. Thats why I bought all those batteries . I now carry 2 in my gun bag and 1 in the grip .If that happens to you . you don't shoot that day . How about this scenario , your out hunting and you drop the gun or bang it on a tree . you check the dot it's still there so no problem , but when you take a shot your 2 feet off cus it lost zero from the impact . For me I just pop up my sights and take another shot and get my trophy . You , well your bumed cus you can't take a follow up shot . Now you have to resight in your rifle with the limited ammo you brought Making all that noise scaring everything away for a mile .

Should I go on LOL But really if its just a range gun and you keep some batteries with you , you should be good . I have the Magpul flip up sights on mine and they work well . Unfortunately you would not be able to use them cus there plastic and your front sight mounts to your gas block . the gas block gets very hot and could melt the sight .

These are the best price I could find with a quick search that can be mounted to a gas block .
http://www.outdoorgearbarn.com/p-296...FSFyQgodXCsAzg
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Old October 29, 2012, 11:29 PM   #94
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1) You must be a mind reader. I'm glad you brought this up. Believe it or not, recently, since I've been having such a hard time choosing an optic, I had been thinking about iron sights. And, I had intended to buy a rifle with sights, it just didn't work out that way. I also am not familiar with which sights would work for my M&P. And, dang, the iron sights cost as much or more than some of the Optics!

2) I kinda like these that I saw on the link page, but, I think they are plastic. Are these the ones that you have? http://www.outdoorgearbarn.com/p-215...ght-black.aspx

http://www.outdoorgearbarn.com/p-215...ght-black.aspx

3) I'm pretty sure a rear sight would need to be the fold down type, but the front might not have to fold. Example, the tall front sights, that I call a Pyramid, don't know the proper name, but they have the sight post in the top of them. Would this type work, and are they expensive also? Let me get one thing straight, I'm not cheap, it's just that I don't have a lot of money, and I spent all my money on the rifle. I think I forgot about buying sights! Maybe I should have bought a sling shot!? Don't laugh, it worked for David!
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Old October 30, 2012, 03:34 AM   #95
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Yes those are the same ones I have . I should add that I put my front sight on my gas block . I just did not want to recomend that to you . Im running my own test to see if the front sight will melt , deform , or just lose zero . I have not ran it very hard yet . The most I put through it was about 200 rounds in one range trip . I was not shooting at a very high rate of fire either .



There is one thing you must be aware of when buying your front sight . They make two basic sizes . One that goes on a gas block that sits lower then the rail on the reciever and one that sits on a gas block thats at the same plane or hight as the rail on your reciever . It apears by the link you gave showing your rifle that yours is on the same plane/hight .

sorry I thought that link I gave you was both front and rear sights . Here is a fixed sight that would work . I do recommend you get the flip up type but it is in no way a must .http://www.midwayusa.com/product/798...aluminum-matte


Yea I get the money thing . I put alot of money in to my black rifle . Thats why I have the magpul sights and not the troy sights I want . I still need to get a muzzle brake and a nice red-dot as well . So yes I get it , no need to explain . Hell I've bought so much stuff while build and tinkering with my others . I almost have enough stuff to build another one . All I really need is a barrel and a upper but I told my self that I must finish the back one first before I start another .
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Old October 30, 2012, 05:52 PM   #96
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Well, it sounds like you're AR poor!

I did a search for Troy iron sights, and this was included on a page, that it pulled up. I believe these will fit my rifle, won't they? What do you think of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUIS-Front-R...item564dd741e4

EDIT: These are metal-reinforced polymer. Don't know if they'll work on mine though.?
http://www.amazon.com/Front-Sight-Ri...oy+iron+sights
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Old October 30, 2012, 06:20 PM   #97
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Bulletproof, those are not actual Troy sights. Actual Troy sights will run you close to $150 for both front and rear.

I would not buy knock-offs. If you want to stay as cheap as possible, stick with the Magpul MBUS sights.
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Old October 30, 2012, 07:14 PM   #98
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Thanks allaroundhunter. I was afraid of that. I just posted an edit to the post u answered, before I saw ur reply. And, they're probably not much good either.
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Old October 30, 2012, 07:19 PM   #99
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Judging by the reviews of them....I would give them a no...
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Old October 30, 2012, 07:19 PM   #100
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I'm so sick of looking that I'm about to the point of just going on and getting the Bushnell TRS-25 and then maybe get some back up irons later. Also, the Bushnell TRS-25's, I've discovered, have several different models, all labeled Bushnell TRS-25. It's like they want to keep us confused!!?
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