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Old August 14, 2012, 11:52 AM   #1
Microgunner
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I just drew my revolver on a guy

A scruffy looking man on a bicycle just came into the shop and proceeded to reach into his front pocket and draw out a loaded Taurus .38spl revolver.
When he looked up he was staring at my S&W 340PD .357mag pointing directly at his chest.
He was surprised and asked if I was going to shoot him.
I said I was thinking about it.
He wanted to pawn his revolver but wanted too much.

I reprimanded him telling him he should expect to be shot whenever he draws a handgun unannounced and that in the future he should bring it into the shop unloaded in a bag if he intends to display it.

I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me and how stupid some folks can be.
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Old August 14, 2012, 11:55 AM   #2
jager.30-06
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well i'm glad it worked out ok for you, some people are just stupid!
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Old August 14, 2012, 12:44 PM   #3
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Maybe he wasnt stupid so much as givin you a test run... Has happened to me...
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Old August 14, 2012, 12:45 PM   #4
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I reprimanded him telling him he should expect to be shot whenever he draws a handgun unannounced
Be careful. In some situations, that threat might be legally actionable.

It's an occupational hazard of working the gun business, and there's no way to avoid it 100%. I get handed my share of loaded guns. Policy is for the employee to take immediate control of any gun coming in and clear it. "It's unloaded" is a useless phrase to me.

That said, I still get a few. Most are due to ignorance, and if I drew on every person who did that, I'd be putting some serious holster wear on my gun. I'd also be getting the police called on me with some regularity.
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Old August 14, 2012, 01:54 PM   #5
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When I have to take a gun of mine into a gunstore, I go in and make contact first with a counter guy, discuss my needs, and then tell him my gun is in the truck and I will go get it. I bring it in locked back or open and make eye contact with my counter guy as I am walking back, then hand it over to him (open) so he can check it for himself.

I always get a thank you for that. I don't do it for politeness though, I do it because I don't want to be shot! That it is a nicety for them is a bonus.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Be careful. In some situations, that threat might be legally actionable.
You're kidding, right?

Telling a person that reaching in their pocket and pulling out a handgun should get them shot is "actionable" where you live?
Glad I don't live there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward429451
When I have to take a gun of mine into a gunstore, I go in and make contact first with a counter guy, discuss my needs, and then tell him my gun is in the truck and I will go get it. I bring it in locked back or open and make eye contact with my counter guy as I am walking back, then hand it over to him (open) so he can check it for himself.

I always get a thank you for that. I don't do it for politeness though, I do it because I don't want to be shot! That it is a nicety for them is a bonus.
A sensible, courteous man.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:05 PM   #7
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Telling a person that reaching in their pocket and pulling out a handgun should get them shot is "actionable" where you live.
Consider:

"Officer, my husband just passed away, and he had this gun in the nightstand. I don't know anything about them! I just put it in my purse and figured I'd take it to the gun shop. When I tried to take it out, the man pointed a gun at me and said he'd shoot me!"

These situations can be subjective, and if I pull a gun on someone, it's assault in most localities. Depending on who's judging the situation, I may have to defend my actions.

I never said you were wrong, just to be careful. Trust me, I know how frustrating it is.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:14 PM   #8
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I take the handgun inside in a case and set it down, and one way or another prove its unloaded, either showing the clerk or letting him do it, however the conversation progresses.

Maybe put up a sign? It should be common sense, but I guess it's not. I don't even know how I would word the sign.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:14 PM   #9
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I can understand your point and if some little old lady came into the store with a firearm in her purse, and they have many times (always loaded), I doubt I would draw on her.

This man looked the part and I profile just the same as every other living human being on the planet.

I encounter firearms in every state of readiness daily but rarely draw my sidearm.

I was attempting to save this man's life in the future.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:52 PM   #10
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Maybe put up a sign?
They just don't work. I used to shoot at a range that was posted something like "absolutely no loaded weapons." They've had at least two negligent discharges on the sales floor, one from a concealed weapon that was taken out to fit it to a holster.

Most folks in the business do what they can, but we still have yokels come through now and then. At least once a week, I'll have a conversation like this:

"I need to check that weapon, sir."

"It doesn't have a clip in..."

"I need to check that weapon."

"It's not loaded."

"I'll establish that."

"Jerkwad sonnuva..."

and a live round ejects when I work the action.

Thing is, that's just a hazard of working with the general public. If anyone's ever come up with a solution, I haven't heard it.
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Old August 14, 2012, 03:19 PM   #11
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I've gone into a few stores looking for accessories or whatnot for the gun I am carrying on me at the time...I always thought it was just plain good form to warn the salesperson before I just whipped it out.

If they need to unload it for some reason, I let them do it - they are insured, I'm not

Quote:
Maybe put up a sign?
No kidding they don't work, we've had a signs up for a month now where I work stating that the restrooms are not open. Want to know how many people ask me daily where the restrooms are?
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Old August 14, 2012, 09:44 PM   #12
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I had a woman bring a .25 ACP auto in one morning carrying it by the triggerguard with thumb and index finger like a dead mouse. Mind you, this was not in a "gun shop" but a government building with NO GUNS signs on all 4 walls.
I scurried into the lobby and ushered her outside ASAP where I cleared the pistol and pocketed the magazine. Seems her extremely ill husband had made some comments about ending his suffering and she knew I was a gun guy so brought the little peashooter to me.
Just one of many iffy, not in the rule book happenings when you're the "go to guy" in a small rural community.
Situation ended as well as could be expected. I located a 3rd party family friend who could be trusted to hold the gun AND return it when the time came.
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Old August 14, 2012, 10:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward429451
When I have to take a gun of mine into a gunstore, I go in and make contact first with a counter guy, discuss my needs, and then tell him my gun is in the truck and I will go get it. I bring it in locked back or open and make eye contact with my counter guy as I am walking back, then hand it over to him (open) so he can check it for himself.
This is my approach. My Very Favorite Gun Shop staff know me, but not closely. They wouldn't freak if I walked in with a firearm in hand, or whatever. But I suppose their jobs are tough enough without introducing that measure of pucker factor into their days.
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Old August 14, 2012, 10:53 PM   #14
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No kidding they don't work, we've had a signs up for a month now where I work stating that the restrooms are not open. Want to know how many people ask me daily where the restrooms are?
they might work too; maybe the ones asking came in for one reason only and made a beeline for you?

I bring it w/me but unloaded but you shouldn't ever draw without verbally communicating about why you are there and/or asking if it is ok and stating it is unloaded
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Old August 15, 2012, 10:54 AM   #15
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Stupid people, tragic out-comes....

In many incidents, good judgement & common sense can avoid mishaps or worse, a fatal shooting.
Years ago, while stationed at a small US Army post in the mid-south, I was working as an MP station desk clerk. I had my issued M9 9x19mm on me and saw a unknown male walk up to the side door, drawing a semi auto pistol. The male wore regular clothes & had no badges or logos/uniform items.
I was about to draw my Beretta pistol when I saw the male(who was a plain-clothes MPI or investigator) unload & clear his sidearm.

Being alert was a good effort on my part, knowing when to fire & using good judgement(not shooting the MPI in the doorway) was smart too.
In another incident, while deployed to Panama(Fort Clayton) I was dispatched to a domestic call on post at a housing unit. When I got to the scene, an unknown female in regular clothes walked up towards me & other uniformed MPs. I told the female to stop repeatedly, which she ignored. I was about to draw my weapon & detain the female when she, at the last second, pulled out her MP badge & creds(a slang term for LE identification). The investigator used poor tactics & judgement. Her inept behavior at the domestic violence scene could have caused a shooting.
Recently, a group of sheriff's deputies in my metro area shot & killed a man in a tragic accident. They did a "no-knock" warrant at 130am on the wrong location. The home owner, an armed male, opened the door & was killed by the deputies. A civil action is now on-going. The sworn deputies were cleared by the county sheriff.

Always remember the old saying; "There's no such thing as friendly fire."

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Old August 15, 2012, 09:09 PM   #16
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I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

Being in a business that deals with firearms and the public is a little tricky to say the least. Kinda like a game warden. Whenever I hear of a police officer taking someone out of a car and handcuffing him over a firearm, I wonder how game wardens get by, dealing with people with firearms on a regular basis.

I'd never dream of walking into a stranger's business and pulling a gun without telling someone why I'm there. Ought to at least do like the Sheriff on Blazing Saddles- "'Scuse me while I whip this out."

I agree that pulling a gun on a customer could be construed as assault. Walking into a store and pulling a gun on the employee could be assault, too.

Come to think of it, a criminal could walk into a pawn shop, pull a gun with intent to rob it, and if the clerk beats him to the punch, he could always say he was just there to pawn it.
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Old August 15, 2012, 09:31 PM   #17
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I got a good lesson when I was 17. It was winter (in Fl) so I had my hoody on and it had one of those big pockets in the front and I had both hands in it. The shop keeps both went to draw down on me as I started taking my hands out of my pocket. I noticed what they were doing just as they saw my empty hands.

The next thing I heard was

"Son, do yourself a favor. Never walk into another pawnshop with your hands in your pockets. It will prolong your life."

And if I ever have to take a firearm anywhere, where I'm going to show it to someone. I have it in a case, action open, mag out (if applicable) and I let them open the case.

Some people just don't think about or know all the ins and outs. They get a bit nervous if they're new or unfamiliar with firearms. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with them
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Old August 16, 2012, 12:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneinFL
Ought to at least do like the Sheriff on Blazing Saddles- "'Scuse me while I whip this out."
Strangely enough....I've said that last time I went to a shop to have something looked at
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Old August 16, 2012, 04:06 PM   #19
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I ride a bicycle and am kind of scruffy looking. I guess I should look around to see how many people are pointing guns at me.
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Old August 16, 2012, 04:19 PM   #20
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I ride a bicycle and am kind of scruffy looking. I guess I should look around to see how many people are pointing guns at me.
Well, if you're stupid enough to walk up to someone and pull a gun out of your pocket then I'd say yes, you should look around to see how many people are pointing a gun at you.
Here it would be every employee present.
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Old August 16, 2012, 05:55 PM   #21
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Was at Cabelas yesterday, (Dundee, MI) they have a sign at the front of the store with a staffer beside it. You can’t miss it.

Glad it was a false alarm and that no-one was hurt, that guy could have been shot. Your admonition to him was in keeping with the circumstances.
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Old August 16, 2012, 06:05 PM   #22
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I also am of the ilk that goes in "unarmed" first to announce intent... When I return it is action open, with the gun in a neutral carry position and not carried by grip or other possible to operate position I hand over or place the firearm on the counter with the stock or grip in their direction...

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Old August 16, 2012, 07:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
I just drew my revolver on a guy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A scruffy looking man on a bicycle just came into the shop and proceeded to reach into his front pocket and draw out a loaded Taurus .38spl revolver.
So when did you know the revolver was loaded? When you drew, you didn't know it was loaded, so whether or not it was loaded doesn't really matter.

So a scruffy guy came in your pawn shop. I know that it is scary when scruffy people come in a pawn shop, but the are often an integral part of the business. We found, however, that it was often the nicely dressed people who caused the problems.

Quote:
When he looked up he was staring at my S&W 340PD .357mag pointing directly at his chest.
He was surprised and asked if I was going to shoot him.
I said I was thinking about it.
That wasn't a smart thing to say. Telling him that you were making sure he would not shoot you would convey the same sentiment without the threat and also let him know without talking down to him that what he did was unsafe.

Quote:
I reprimanded him telling him he should expect to be shot whenever he draws a handgun unannounced and that in the future he should bring it into the shop unloaded in a bag if he intends to display it.
Along with telling the guy you were thinking about shooting him, reprimmanding him wasn't a very good idea either. Explaining politely and professionally how he should approach the situation might have garnered you a valuable customer. Since you apparently didn't like the cut of his jib, telling him you were thinking about killing him and publically reprimanding him, potentially humiliating him might be the type of thing that finds your business on fire in the middle of the night, if indeed your fears about him were valid.

Quote:
I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me and how stupid some folks can be.
You mean how stupid your gun owning customers can be?

Quote:
I encounter firearms in every state of readiness daily but rarely draw my sidearm.
We did as well and never drew a sidearm. The "stop" command usually worked quite sufficiently.

Quote:
I was attempting to save this man's life in the future.
It really sounds like you were expressing your displeasure for the guy being stupid in your shop and you wanted to let him know it. You didn't like the way he looked and you didn't like the way he behaved. Somehow I have a feeling you would have been courteous to the little old lady for behaving in an equally stupid manner, but not a scruffy guy.

------

We used to have people get mad when we would not take their loaded guns into pawn. We explained that it was a safety issue. We didn't sell ammo in our shop either, for that matter. So then they just wanted to pawn the ammo with the gun, which seemed reasonable until you realized all of them wanted to load the gun in the shop before leaving. So no ammo, LOL.
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Old August 16, 2012, 08:10 PM   #24
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I can tell if a revolver is loaded the second I can see the front of the cylinder... kind of hard to miss actually...

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Old August 16, 2012, 08:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeFrog View Post
The sworn deputies were cleared by the county sheriff
Not sure what this means.



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