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Old August 25, 2012, 09:43 AM   #76
Crazy Carl
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Another issue might be the stock's length of pull. A too long stock will beat you up much worse. I have a Mossberg 590A1, that with the OEM syn furniture was both too light & the stock too long. Beat the bajeebus outta me.

Bought some NOS wood furniture for the extra weight (& look). My SKS fits me like a glove (I'm built like a gorilla at 5'7" & 46" chest), so I measured its LoP & cut the Mossy stock down to that length & added a LimbSaver pad.

Huge difference. Much more comfortable to shoot.

I'd be hesitant to hack up a CZ stock in my garage, but if the stock's too long, you might look into having a good 'smith cut the stock down & fit a good pad.
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Old August 25, 2012, 09:51 AM   #77
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James, there are many factors in recoil, both actual and percieved..... and one of the most overlooked is stock fit in relation to sight/scope height. With the large objective scopes popular these days, the sight height is often far too tall for the stock (particularly on guns that have or had iron sights) to get a good "cheek to stock weld" and still look through the center of the scope ...... the shooter must raise his cheek up off the stock to get a good sight picture. Then when the rifle moves rearward in recoil, the shooter's head does not move back with the rifle as a unit, but is momentarily motionless, and then yanked back (and down) by the shooters neck (think "whiplash") ......

Proper equipment and technique will prevent all that.

To check your sight height, mount the gun to your shoulder with your eyes closedand make sure your cheek is firmly in contact with the stock. Then open your eyes. Can you see the whole field of view in your scope?

There are comb raising kits out there to bring your eye up to the right height while maintaining contact with the stock, as well as providing a bit of padding. I use this one on one of my rifles: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...B-RAISING-KITS

I have found that a properly used military style sling helps tie everything together, and good shooting positions are important:

http://carnival.saysuncle.com/001086.html
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Old August 25, 2012, 11:20 AM   #78
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Quote:
you shouldn't allow the barrel to be in contact with anything when sighting in
My mistake with terminology. I was, in fact, resting the front part of the
stock on the rack: the part with the sling hoop.

Quote:
Another issue might be the stock's length of pull.
Actually, I think the stock is OK, lengthwise. My elbow is bent through 90 degrees when the stock is in the shoulder. With the change in recoil after the pad, I feel it is that bakerlite plate that was the worst offender.

Quote:
To check your sight height
This is something I've been meaning to do.

If needed, I can buy strap on leather pads, or I may make a wooden one and screw it into place...
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Old August 25, 2012, 02:54 PM   #79
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Quote:
Quote:
To check your sight height
This is something I've been meaning to do.
Tell you what!
My sight height is waaaay off!!!

Closed eyes, raised rifle to shoulder, nestled cheek, opened eyes, stared at back of bolt...

Yep, I need about another 2cm.

I see whittling in my future... my sunday afternoon future!!
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Old August 25, 2012, 07:50 PM   #80
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Glad I could be of some help!

Quote:
My sight height is waaaay off!!!

Closed eyes, raised rifle to shoulder, nestled cheek, opened eyes, stared at back of bolt...

Yep, I need about another 2cm.
2cm? Yep, your head was up there moving around like you were a bobble-head doll..... that'd make for uncomfortable centerfire shooting.
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Old August 25, 2012, 09:52 PM   #81
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2cm? Yep, your head was up there moving around like a you were a bobble-head doll.....
How do you steady a bobble-head? Use one of those U shaped inflatable neck pillows they sell for use on airplanes. Let's try that.....

Wow, this works much better than cheek pads. Inflate to the level you want and rest it on the stock. I found about half inflated was just right; nice and comfy and lots of support. Inflates in 2 minutes and useful for taking naps also.

I'll have to try this next time I go shooting.

Gary
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Old August 26, 2012, 03:55 PM   #82
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Use one of those U shaped inflatable neck pillows they sell for use on airplanes. Let's try that.....
Not much use in any practical situation ....... Brownells has several different solutions to comb height issues, which leave nothing to futz with each time you mount the gun.
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Old August 28, 2012, 09:19 AM   #83
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Ruger Laminate Compact. 16.5" Sporter, under 6lb rifle, terrible buttpad. You think your rifle kicks, this was insane compared to the other ones. My solution was a VAIS muzzle brake! I can't say enough good things about VAIS. Their claims are TRUE. The brake not only reduces recoil by 40-50%, THERE IS NO INCREASE IN SOUND, which no other brake that I know can claim. I barely noticed the recoil after getting the VAIS muzzle brake.
All this talking and I think your the only one to mention a muzzle brake. I'll +2 that.

I also have a Ruger Compact in a .243. I'll agree, it bucks like a mule!
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Old August 29, 2012, 04:01 AM   #84
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.308 dont kick hard to me.
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Old September 4, 2012, 06:43 PM   #85
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Thanks chuckn

Quote:
All this talking and I think your the only one to mention a muzzle brake. I'll +2 that.

I also have a Ruger Compact in a .243. I'll agree, it bucks like a mule!
Thanks chuck, I couldn't believe it wasn't brought up before either and really is the best option. Try a VAIS brake on your .243, won't believe the difference it makes.
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Old September 4, 2012, 08:02 PM   #86
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When you add a muzzle brake, make sure you wearing top-quality ear protection forever after when shooting it. Depending on how enclosed is the area in which you are shooting, the increase in blast noise can be enormous. My 40-years' shooting buddy came by on Sunday for a visit. I noticed that he had Kleenex stuffed in his ears for the tinnitus he got from shooting a mulie in a box canyon with a .300 Weatherby and a KDF brake. That was about 15 years ago.
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:21 AM   #87
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Blast noise is the same only redirected up and to the sides instead of out front.

Hearing protection should be worn even without muzzle break.
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:38 AM   #88
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Quote:
Blast noise is the same only redirected up and to the sides instead of out front.

Hearing protection should be worn even without muzzle break.
I agree on the use of hearing protection, but what was being said is that due to the direction of the muzzle blast being redirected closer to the shooter, there will be an increase in sound level.

*most muzzle brakes*

Last edited by allaroundhunter; September 5, 2012 at 07:21 PM.
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Old September 5, 2012, 07:16 PM   #89
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Not with the VAIS

VAIS should be paying me to advertise Not all muzzle brakes are the same and that is why I keep directing people to the VAIS, it does NOT increase the sound like other brakes. Like the others said, you should be wearing hearing protection regardless, but with the VAIS, there is no increase in sound (if there was I couldn't tell), just like they claim. Well worth it and takes care of the recoil problem.
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Old September 6, 2012, 03:52 PM   #90
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Muscle handles recoil far better than scrawny dude's skin & bones,
and far better than fat...

Moral of the story??

BULK UP!!

Lift heavy weights!!
Crush your enemies!!
and Give Big Hickey's to all the Fair Damsels!!



If you haven't seen the movie, its basically Coyote/Roadrunner in human form, and funny as heck!!
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Old September 7, 2012, 05:18 PM   #91
Bushmaster1313
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I shot my .308 Winchester Model 88 in .308 all of three rounds before I traded it.

Now I have an 88 in .243
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Old September 12, 2012, 02:35 PM   #92
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no matter what you attach, or how you customize ; shoot more first.

you will get used to it, and if you dont, your shoulder will all on its own.

I typically leave a rifle unloaded for beginners , and instruct them it's ready to fire. When they squeeze off it's unreal how many people jump...

If you squeeze as gently as you should, youll never see it coming and will fight off the wretched flinch.

Be sure not to lean too low and be shooting off the collar. That will give the impression of a huge recoil and leave your shoulder muscles sore, when in reality its the collar effected.

You can always sendoff a few dozen 00bucks downrange a few days a week, and when you go back to your .308 you'll be rocked and ready
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Old September 12, 2012, 06:34 PM   #93
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Make sure the stock is in that natural 'pocket' formed when the upper arm is about parallel w/ the ground ie-on the shoulder-not the ARM.

Put the stock on the biceps and you will be sore-no question.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:38 PM   #94
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Amazing! What is the weight of your 308? I'm guessing under 9lbs with the scope.

First, let's get some scope here so you know why people are abusing you. 223 level is basically no felt recoil in and average rifle. 243 Win can be felt. 308 is moderately firm. 300 mag in a hunting weight rifle is definately firm. Heavy recoil starts at like 375 H&H and it would be memorable, but this is also the caliber women and irregular shooters are asked to bring to Africa. 458 Lott, my dream rifle, has recoil. 5 rounds from a bench is likely unbearable, but from shooting positions would likely just be considered "HEAVY." 505 Gibbs, 600 Overkill, 470 NE, 577 NE are all "HEAVY!" I want one so bad!

TECHNIQUE:
Personally, I would bet this is 90% of your issue. First, get the rifle solidly on your shoulder and off your arm.

See how the line from shoulder to shoulder is nearly perpendicular. to the bore axis. That is the key. It allows the recoil to travel down the strong muscles of your back. Holding it back into your shoulder with your trigger hand with about 5 lbs of pressure helps also.

WEIGHT:
A 308 should be comfortable in a 9lb rifle including scope. More weight makes recoil feel like less. In a 15 lb rifle, you will feel little.

LOAD:
Lighter bullets and lower velocities recoil less. Those combined with weight are the primary physical things which affect rifle recoil.

STOCK DESIGN:
A straighter stock profile putting the action just above the shoulder line will provide the best recoil transfer and reduced recoil. Adding a good recoil pad helps. Many rifles, especially in 308 or lesser calibers come with a rather thin rubber pad. A ~1" pad or larger can be a big help. Also, some rifles have a lot of drop(barrel centerline above shoulder) This can really add to the recoil feeling.

SCOPE POSITION AND EYE RELIEF:
Sounds weird but, I don't trust scopes. If my rifles stock makes me likely to scrunch up around the eyepiece, I hate it. If my scopes eye relief does the same, I basically fear the recoil more that the recoil itself. There is nothing like taking a scope in the ey to make you hate recoil. Scopes with 3.5" or more eye relief are key. Then get the technique and stock adjustments so you are likely to fall into your comfort spot quickly and easily at the bench, prone, etc.

So, take it easy and really play around until you find a way to shoot this thing. I wouldn't mess with extra recoil pads, shooting jackets, etc at this point, but who am I to say!
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Old September 13, 2012, 12:55 AM   #95
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So, take it easy and really play around until you find a way to shoot this thing.
Thanks for the breakdown. I agree that it is likely to be technique, coupled with inexperience in what to expect.

The first time I shot it, was the first time I had shot a centrefire rifle. My sight height was wrong (as I now understand), I was shooting from a bench rest because my barrel control is so bad at the moment and the stock had a granite shoulder plate.

All those factors added up to my first .308 experience being stouter than it might have been. Having said that, a .308 is a powerful round in its own right, despite some of the manly-man-man remarks. It may not come high in the recoil league tables, but that doesn't mean it has none!!
Besides... I have muscles! It's just that a fair proportion have migrated to my waist....

I have since replaced that shoulder plate with a rubber recoil pad, I have moved to a more upright seated position, and replaced the scope with a model of greater eye-relief. I now only need to address the sight height issue.

Already the recoil is more of a shove than a punch.

I will soon make a stock block to raise my cheek, up to the level of the scope and I will try and visualise my shoulder position to match your suggestions, so thanks again!
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Old September 18, 2012, 08:06 PM   #96
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Recoil and the .308 do not exist together! It just doesn't happen except in the head of one who fears the rifle ... period!
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Old September 19, 2012, 02:27 AM   #97
Pond, James Pond
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Recoil and the .308 do not exist together! It just doesn't happen except in the head of one who fears the rifle ... period!
OK.

Get a light-weight single shot .308.

Put the buttplate against the tip of your nose.... you can guess the next step.

....let me know if the results match your assertions.




DISCLAIMER: ...and no, I don't actually advocate this as a test of recoil.
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