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Old August 17, 2012, 09:43 AM   #51
g.willikers
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A note on shooting from the bench.
Set things up so you are sitting upright, rather than low and leaning over the stock.
That helps for reducing the effects of recoil.
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Old August 18, 2012, 05:12 PM   #52
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I believe it's 50% mental and 50% physical. Most people get caught up on the physical and pay no attention to the mental. If you want it to scare you, or hurt, it will.

Just say to yourself, "I can take this. Bring it on! I'm not a wuss and this is nothing!!" Man up and actually enjoy the recoil. Get a thrill out of it similar to your reaction when riding a roller coaster. Don't fear it, relish in it. Say to yourself "Thank you master. May I have another?"

After that you have conquered the 50% mental aspect of it. When it truly, truly does start hurting your shoulder, you can stop.
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Old August 19, 2012, 01:30 AM   #53
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Pond, James Pond
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That is partly why I am not going to try zeroing my scope, or indeed shooting it again, until I have found a way to counter that recoil. It may be that a fat towel is enough.
Trying to dial in a scope with a Fat towel is not going to give you a true zero on your weapon.

The next time you fire it and the "fat towel is not there or something else the same thickness you POA/POI is going to change.


Consistency in placing your head/cheek on the weapon's stock and the stock into your shoulder is what gives your repeatable accuracy
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Old August 20, 2012, 11:37 AM   #54
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The size & strength of the particular human shooting a particular weapons determines FELT or perceived recoil...
Meaning a Big Strong guy will have far less trouble that a tiny little limpwristy critter
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Old August 20, 2012, 11:41 AM   #55
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Quote:
The size & strength of the particular human shooting a particular weapons determines FELT or perceived recoil...
Meaning a Big Strong guy will have far less trouble that a tiny little limpwristy critter
My wife, all 5'2" and 120 lbs does not follow your reasoning.
X-bolt in .308
870 in 12 ga
She shoots them both all day at the range.
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Old August 20, 2012, 02:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
The size & strength of the particular human shooting a particular weapons determines FELT or perceived recoil...
Meaning a Big Strong guy will have far less trouble that a tiny little limpwristy critter
I beg to differ. Perceived recoil is all about the mindset. Typically, big and bulky people aren't worried about being pushed around by a gun like some smaller people are, but that doesn't mean that "tiny" people can't handle a large caliber gun without problems. My 4' 6" brother went out and shot 20 rounds through our 300 Win Mag without a problem and afterwards our 6' 3" tall neighbor put 3 rounds through it before he was done.....

Mindset...skillset....toolset...(through all parts of shooting)


Now, a higher caliber rifle will push a smaller person's shoulder more than a larger person (all else being equal), that is just physics. How they handle it goes back to their mindset.

Last edited by allaroundhunter; August 20, 2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old August 20, 2012, 08:01 PM   #57
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A bigger person absorbs more recoil, so should feel more too. Especially if it's a M-70 Lightweight .308 their shooting.
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:12 AM   #58
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Quote:
My wife, all 5'2" and 120 lbs does not follow your reasoning.
X-bolt in .308
870 in 12 ga
She shoots them both all day at the range.
My step daughter is the same way. She doesn't know what a recoil pad is. When she was 13 she was shooting my SXS 12 gauge and firing both barrels at once shooting clay pigeons. I guess I forgot to tell her it was supposed to hurt. My first wife wasn't into shotguns too much but magnum revolvers is what she loved. She weighed 110 and had small but long fingers. Her fave was hot loaded 44 mags.
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Old August 21, 2012, 12:14 PM   #59
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^^ Agree with you Hawg; try this, let your buddy put both hands behind your shoulder (to limit your movement) while you fire that heavy recoiling rifle and see how much worse it feels.
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Old August 21, 2012, 12:19 PM   #60
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Agree with you Hawg; try this, let your buddy put both hands behind your shoulder (to limit your movement) while you fire that heavy recoiling rifle and see how much worse it feels.
It will be a lot worse! It doesn't allow your shoulder to soak up the recoil by "rolling with the punch".
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Old August 21, 2012, 12:43 PM   #61
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To the OP:

One of the basics in rifle shooting is to keep the rifle firm into your shoulder. Where you place the rifle stock is also critical. Are you placing it into the pocket of the shoulder?

Another factor in recoil control is a good cheek weld to the stock.

Finally, prhaps the very best thing you can do about recoil is to install and properly use a 2 piece leather military sling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmemF...eature=related

The link above shows the proper assembly for the 2 piece sling.

This next one shows installation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEJwf...eature=related

And here is an excellent instruction video concerning the use of the sling.

If you want to cut to the sling instruction itself, start at about 3:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsUa...eature=related

I guarantee that the proper use of this sling to bring that rifle tight into the shoulder will almost completely eliminate your recoil problem.
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Old August 21, 2012, 05:56 PM   #62
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Try Remington managed recoil rounds. These 308 rounds have 125 gr core-lockt bullets, and will have recoil on par with a 30-30. If you're after deer at <200 yards, you are good to go-plenty of power for that. Your 308 rifle leaves you the option of heavier recoiling 165gr or 180gr rounds for longer range and/or larger game someday, but if that is not your object now, try starting out easy.
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Old August 22, 2012, 03:17 PM   #63
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As some others have said,a quality recoil pad would be the first change that should be made to the rifle.
It also should be fit to suit you-LOP.
Some factory stock designs just SUCK!,and no matter what caliber the weapon is,it will punish the shooter.

If you want to be able to shoot the rifle comfortably,and enjoy it,then get it fit to you.It will be worth any extra expense that you put into it.

I have 2 308 caliber rifles,both are heavy barreled Savage's,a 10FCP and 12FLV.
The factory tuperware stock on the 12FLV would punish the shooter after only 3-4 rounds,even with the thick cushy recoil pad that came on it.
Factory stock-


New stock-


I purchased this rifle used,but it probably didn't have a box of shells shot out of it,because of the way it recoiled.I shoot a lot of 308-30/06-300WM rounds each month,and this rifle by far was a shoulder killer.
By a simple stock change,this rifle has a completely different feel,and I have no problem sending 100-200rds down range with it any day.

Shooting off a bench will also make the felt recoil worse if you are not properly set up at the bench with the rifle also.
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Old August 23, 2012, 02:06 AM   #64
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I bought some recoil absorbtion material. They have the consistentcy of that gel wrist pad you get with come computer mouse mats. However, they are much thinner.

I have cut 3 to size giving me a half-inch rubber surface, glued to a thin ply base. The mounting screws are recessed against that ply base so that they won't press into my shoulder when firing. That should help a lot and overall the stock length has only increased my about a quarter of an inch.

I'll get some more cartridges and get back to the range this week or next...
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Old August 23, 2012, 10:07 AM   #65
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For a lengthy bench rest session, I'll commonly place a small sandbag between the butt pad and my shoulder. Adds about a pound of weight to the rifle, and spreads the impact across a wider area.

A quality butt pad makes a big difference. Remington, for instance, did a good job on the 700 Ti. Mine, in 7mm08, is only 6.5 pounds with scope, sling and ammo--yet the recoil at the bench is no big deal.
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Old August 23, 2012, 10:31 AM   #66
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Well, I bought 20 rounds of .308 this afternoon and I have 90 mins booked at the range.

An hour on the rifle, and another 30 mins at the short range course to see how my .44 crimps are doing!!

Between the butt-plate replacement and some shoulder padding I should not be distracted from my shooting the way I was last time.

Nice way to start the weekend.
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Old August 23, 2012, 11:22 AM   #67
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Have fun shooting. Hopefully your new recoil pad does the trick.
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Old August 23, 2012, 11:38 AM   #68
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Have fun shooting. Hopefully your new recoil pad does the trick.
Thanks!!

I'll be sure to give an update on how it all went!!
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Old August 23, 2012, 03:44 PM   #69
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James,

Considering the 308 matches the capability of a 30-06 Cartridge, yes its a pretty good kick. 30-06 needed the case capacity because of the lower capability powders (you could go fast, you just needed a lot of it). Modern powders allow a shorter case and equal capability.

Butt pads are your friend, if you shoot a lot then something along the lines of the modern recoil pads are the way to go (limb saver is sort of the generic but there are a lot of equal types out there that tune to your needs so research is needed)

I have shot three guns that are far worse than a 308, two rifles and a shot gun.

After years of layoff, I took my 3 inch 12 gauge magnum out to see if it still ran before I tried to sell it. Not sure how I survived it, but I was 20 years younger when I hunted with it. Phew (and it has a butt pad!). 3 was all I was up to.. .

Ditto with the 7mm Rem Magnum. That one is brutal. 10 shots and you are out (sans a limb saver of the like which my brother has and it entended his 7mm hunting another 10 years)

Oddly the 375 H&H was less lethal. Couple aspect, it builds pressure slower and it was a fairly heavy gun (again with butt pad but not a modern one). Harder then a 30-06 but not nearly as brutal as a 7mm.

You can also shoot reduced loads. We are shooting various 19-03s and using a 150 gr load with pretty low speeds in the 2400 range. Helps a lot as the guns are military restorer (or originals) and not butt pads are not part of a military stock (a good reason to get young recruits!).

So far have not needed to resort to a shoulder protector. Harder to shoot right with one of those I think. There are slip on limb saver types as well. Can use and then take off as desired and not a bad way to go.

Give me another 5 years and I may change my mind about the shoulder pad!

Good luck, have fun, look into reloading as that's the only way to get reduced (maybe regulations do not allow in your neck of the woods).
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Old August 23, 2012, 08:01 PM   #70
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I've never found that extra padding while at the bench has caused any difficulty for sub-MOA groups. Length of pull isn't as critical there as it is when hunting.
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Old August 24, 2012, 10:01 AM   #71
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If it hurts, it is only because you are thinking about it too much. I have found that when shooting paper the recoil is much more than when shooting the same gun at a deer. Try not thinking about it and concentrate on your target and you should notice a difference.
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Old August 25, 2012, 12:07 AM   #72
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Technique & Other Options - VAIS Muzzle Brake

As Discern brought up, proper positioning (technique) is crucial, to which I believe you said you were using. My experiences (all .308):
  1. Savage 10FP. 24" Heavy barrel, slightly heavier rifle, lower felt recoil. Very manageable. Shot better than .5 MOA with my handloads.
  2. Remington 700 SPS Tactical. Heavy 20" barrel, felt a little more recoil but still not too bad. Shot .5 MOA with my handloads.
  3. Savage Precision Carbine. 20" Tapered heavy barrel, still lighter weight rifle but not bad for recoil. Still working on the loads
  4. Ruger Laminate Compact. 16.5" Sporter, under 6lb rifle, terrible buttpad. You think your rifle kicks, this was insane compared to the other ones. My solution was a VAIS muzzle brake! I can't say enough good things about VAIS. Their claims are TRUE. The brake not only reduces recoil by 40-50%, THERE IS NO INCREASE IN SOUND, which no other brake that I know can claim. I barely noticed the recoil after getting the VAIS muzzle brake.

Again, I would go with only a VAIS muzzle brake from now one. They are a little more expensive but the benefit of no sound increase is not only great for the range but for hunting too (guides don't like the excessive sound/blast from muzzle brakes).

Also, when your shoulder hurts...STOP SHOOTING! I learned this the hard way from the Ruger until getting the VAIS brake (which was my previous hunting setup). No point in fearing to shoot your rifle from pain and a flinch. I could barely get out 20 rounds before the VAIS brake and after, 20 was nothing.

No matter what rifle, I found my tolerance to be between 20-50 rounds. No point after that or when you start feeling sore.

If your only shooting at the range, why not go with a more dedicated range rifle? Either a heavier tactical or bench type rifle? You won't notice the recoil as much with a 10-12lb rifle (now that same rifle with a VAIS brake will shoot like a .22 )

http://www.muzzlebrakes.com/

Last edited by miykael; August 25, 2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old August 25, 2012, 03:53 AM   #73
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I went again yesterday.

I made a couple of changes. Namely, I was shooting whilst kneeling, with the barrel resting on a rack, and I had the new recoil pad.

On the whole, the gun was far more comfortable. There is a "shove" to it, but not the kick I had experienced before. That hard plastic standard butt-plate is just an unecessary evil in the world!!

I managed to zero the scope in 3 shots!! However, my Burris has a problem with one of the turret dials, so I may need to do it again at a later date...

At least I know it is easy enough to do!!

On the plus, despite my shaky aim, 1 MOA accuracy seems quite possible!!
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Old August 25, 2012, 08:00 AM   #74
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Nice! Shoot it more. Enjoy
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Old August 25, 2012, 09:05 AM   #75
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James, you shouldn't allow the barrel to be in contact with anything when sighting in, or when hunting as it will throw off the harmonics and your "zero" will not be an actual zero when you get into the field. It is best to rest the forend of the gun on a support. But regardless, great shooting, and I'm glad the gun isn't punishing you as bad as it previously had! Keep shooting and keep enjoying it



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