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Old August 10, 2012, 04:27 AM   #1
ronz
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Help me pick a bullet and powder for my 308

Going to start loading 308 and 223 so a powder that works good for both would be great but not necessary but don’t want anything temp sensitive
I don’t hunt anymore so it’s only for target shooting out to 100 yards and would like to go for a really light recoil
Also don’t plan to shoot in any competitions and am cheap and out of work so no real expensive match grade stuff just something on the lower end of the price range that will work good
What about pulled or blemished bullets are they worth thinking about?
I don’t know the twist rates off hand but will be shooting a heavy barrel Howa 1500 and a Ishapor 2a1
Thanks
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Old August 10, 2012, 04:55 AM   #2
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For the .308, any good 168 grain bullet does well in most barrels. The Army uses the 175s in the long-range cartridge, but my best groups have been shot with Sierra Matchking 168 grain bullets. I've also gotten some great groups from Hornady's AMax bullet. The powder is easy, either Reloder 15 or Varget, depending on what is available. They're both great powders for the .308 and very close to each other in burn speed.

For the .223, it depends. It depends on whether you're shooting a bolt or a gas gun, what the barrel twist might be, and your preferred bullet weight. Lots of good bullets for the .223, and lots of good powders. As it turns out, both Hodgdon and Alliant list .223 data for Varget and RL15, but you might find better propellants based on the bullet size you settle with.
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Old August 10, 2012, 06:18 AM   #3
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Plinking at 100 yards I would say Varget and Hornady inter locking bullets in.308. I shoot the 150-Grain in three different rifles. Midsouth shooters has the best price on the bullets. For the 223 they are out of stock now but you can back order the Midsouth Varmint Nightmare .224 Bullets they are $40.00 for 500.
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Old August 10, 2012, 07:55 AM   #4
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There are a variety of powders that work well for both. Reloder 15, Varget, 4895, TAC/2460, 2520, WC844 and WC846 just to name a few. I am personally more into ball powders these days because they are cheaper and easier to work with. The more I shoot the bigger difference that makes. If I were just buying a pound of powder here and there it might be a different story.
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Old August 10, 2012, 08:06 AM   #5
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here's the 223 bullet.....
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...00422455VNE500

here's the 308 bullet....
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0000330502

Here's the powder....
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...?sku=00034VAR1
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Old August 10, 2012, 08:31 AM   #6
ronz
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well I had the powder right was thinking on going with varget but way off on the bullets I was thinking about going with a real light weight one
I miss living in Clarksville used to shop at midsouth
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Old August 10, 2012, 08:47 AM   #7
Bart B.
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For the least amount of money per shot, using surplus military bullets in each will do just fine. Pulled bullets work, expecially those removed form live ammo with impact/inertia pullers. Use 4895 powder and surplus cases, too.
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Old August 10, 2012, 09:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
...I don’t hunt anymore so it’s only for target shooting ...
Then you should ignore any advice that suggests hunting bullets. Choose one of the .308 bullets from a major maker that are intended for target shooting for the best accuracy. Sierra, Hornady, and Speer all make excellent target bullets. Nevertheless, if the statistics have not changed in the past several years, there are more top competitors using Sierra than the others.

Quote:
...Also don’t plan to shoot in any competitions and am cheap and out of work so no real expensive match grade stuff just something on the lower end of the price range that will work good...
Disregard the advice I posted above, go with pulled bullets as suggested.
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Old August 10, 2012, 03:24 PM   #9
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Varget....
Pretty much rules the .308 class; some guys have iffy results with it in 5.56/2.23, with lighter bullets- but we have excellent results with bullets upwards of 52 grains.
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Old August 10, 2012, 04:11 PM   #10
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If you really want light recoil and low cost, cast bullets over Trail Boss powder will hit targets at 100 yards just fine. You just won't be running any semi-autos this way.
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Old August 10, 2012, 06:50 PM   #11
ronz
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I was going to add a 9 oz can of trail boss on the order just to try it out
the cast were pretty cheap that’s about all I load for pistols but always keep them below 1000 fps usually < 800 so was worried about leading but at 1400 to 1500 fps max it probably shouldn’t be a problem
For cast I was looking at Missouri Bullet .309 Diameter 165 Grain RNFP Brinell 18 For .30-.30
But then thought about using berry’s 150g plated so I didn’t have to worry about leading there about the same price 0.13 but didn’t know it they would produce the accuracy I wanted
So before I get to thinking about using jacketed 100-110gr for .014 again and make my head hurt from confusion witch would be the better choice cast?
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Old August 10, 2012, 09:39 PM   #12
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IMR-4064 is no slouch with 168 gr bullets in .308. It ruled the Olympic Match shooters loads for a long time. Also, the very best group I've ever gotten out of my 223 was with 4064, but I refuse to hand weigh 4064 and try to use it a a small 223 case for target work. Too much hassle.
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Old August 11, 2012, 10:22 AM   #13
ronz
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Think I’m getting close to be able to put in my order with no hazmat bullets are easy to change in the future so going to start out cheap with 150gr berry’s if I can’t dial them in will order in some amax or some 168 match
For the more important decision powder definitely going to get some varget
I just need to figure out if or what other powders to get
The small can of trail boss is cheap $12 uses real small charges and can be also used for some pistol rounds but small really fast loads in a rifle cartridge does make me a little nervous
For the 223/556 I have an ar with a 1/9 twist and 55gr bullets
For the (bolt) 308’s will using berry’s with cast data produce excellent accuracy (only out to 100 yards) or should I scrap that idea?
Should I consider getting another powder for cast?
Only one I have listed was tu2000 burn rate 31 varget is 42 trail boss is 10
Thanks for the help been reloading pistol for 20+ years best accuracy was always with lead at a low velocity so that is influencing me and have yet to load a rifle round but seeing I’m only after short range accuracy I can’t see why it wouldn’t be the same for a rifle
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Old August 12, 2012, 11:11 AM   #14
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you...

But if you're contemplating sending Berry's plated bullets, out of a Howa .308- forget about Varget.

Berry's plated bullets aren't to be shot over 1700 fps. You need a near subsonic load- and a completely different powder. Hodgdon does list a trail boss load for 150 grain bullets.

Far as "excellent accuracy", I'm not sure what your definition is of that....

Precision shooters would define that as 1/2-3/4 of an inch (or less) at 100 yards.

I would guess- never tried it- that ain't gonna happen with cast or plated bullets, especially at low velocity. Normally 100 yards with a centerfire cartridge of any caliber has a flight time so short it's mostly unaffected by external factors (wind, gravity). Not so with a load that has half the velocity you would normally use.

If you want match accuracy, use match bullets at the velocity that gives you the best accuracy through the normal process of load development.

Last edited by tobnpr; August 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM.
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Old August 12, 2012, 12:20 PM   #15
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Tobnpr's claim:
Quote:
Precision shooters would define that as 1/2-3/4 of an inch (or less) at 100 yards. I would guess- never tried it- that ain't gonna happen with cast or plated bullets, especially at low velocity.
You might check out the following on cast bullets:

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...e-barrels.html

Especially the part that reads

A properly made barrel (with bullets seated from the muzzle) will shoot 10-shot groups at 200 yards that will average about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches (or) less in diameter. . . .

In the early 1950's when in high school, I used to occasionally see an old man come to the local outdoor 100 yard range with his .32-40 chambered Schutzen rifle. Using a false muzzle and bullet starter then pushing his cast bullets swaged just perfect down atop a small charge of black powder, he would shoot 3/4 inch, sometimes better, 5-shot groups all the time at 100 yards. He used a wierd looking rest under the barrel and rested the stock toe on another bag.

I doubt folks these days want to load cast bullets from their modern rifle's muzzles.

Last edited by Bart B.; August 12, 2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old August 12, 2012, 02:56 PM   #16
jolly roger
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4064 is THE accuracy powder in my 700P...but it IS a pain to measure. Reloader 15 and Varget next. We are talking 1 inch at 100 easily with them. But for some reason 4064 is magical. 5 shots into a LITTLE hole..if I do my part. 42.5 grains. Shoots better than Federal Gold Medal...well at least as good. Sierra 168 bullet of choice with Federal Match primer and Winchester neck sized brass.
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Old August 13, 2012, 12:07 AM   #17
ronz
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Instead of excellent accuracy I probably should have put acceptable accuracy would be an inch
But honestly a cheap round with light recoil under 1 ¼” would also work
Light recoil is just as or more important than accuracy is for now
Using berry’s or cast hits 2 out of 3 things I’m looking for but if the best they can do is a 2”-3” group there out
I thought the answer for my pet round would be using light weight 110gr varmint bullets there cheap and have a lot of reports of 1” or less shot groups but no idea about recoil
Reduced recoil loads are generally for hunting where a 2” shot group would be considered excellent
Don’t want to use any cat sneeze or rounds where I have to tip up the barrel to get the powder against the primer so I don’t blow up my gun
Target loads are mostly geared for longer range and cost/recoil isn’t much of a consideration
Hornady does have a match grade 168gr bullet at a decent price only about twice the cost of berry’s
This might be a case of almost anything I pick will work if I do my part finding the right charge
I can’t even find varget locally not much for reloading supplies in Milwaukee
So I’m ordering and have to pay the hazmat fee I just want to be sure I get what I need and the right stuff
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