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Old October 1, 2009, 09:21 PM   #1
mayosligo
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.410 slug, enough to take down a deer?

Wasn't sure about this. I assume it is enough. I have single shot .410 that I thought of mounting a scope to and offer to visitors that might want to hunt but have not made the purchase of a gun.

Your thoughts. PS, I hunt in Louisiana so the vast majority of shots are going to be within 100 yards.
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Old October 1, 2009, 09:45 PM   #2
Rigby1962
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I have seen it done but I don’t think its really adequate. The Brenneke 3" mag 410 is only a 1/4 ounce and has about 500 ftlbs at 25 yds and something like only 350 ftlbs at 50yds.
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Old October 1, 2009, 09:46 PM   #3
lachanceent
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.410 slug will be good for deer with in 100 yds

Happy hunting!
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Old October 1, 2009, 10:13 PM   #4
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That depends on where you are.....

...... some places, the deer are the size of largish border collies (I've seen 'em! Didn't recognize them as deer at first.) . I would not think it ethical to try to kill a 200 lb animal with a slug generating less energy than many pistol rounds.

A rifle has to generate 400 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards to be a legal hunting weapon for firearm deer season here in Nebraska. The slug you mentioned would not qualify here.
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Old October 1, 2009, 10:33 PM   #5
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It's probably plenty enough if you do your part but illegal in some places (like NY). Check your laws.
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Old October 1, 2009, 10:49 PM   #6
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Does the 410 slug have sufficient terminal ballistics to ethically kill a deer?

Quote:
This is probably the most difficult question to answer since terminal ballistics are such a difficult and inexact science. There are a plethora of stories of huge deer dropping in their tracts from a well or luckily placed shot from a 22lr and then you also hear stories of relatively small deer hit with multiple rounds from very formidable and accepted deer guns and still running off to be found after a long blood trail or lost completely.

Where does the 410 rank in there? I would put the 410 slug near the bottom of the acceptable deer cartridges. I think this conclusion is fairly well support by the fact that it is such a controversial choice. If the 410 slug was well into either the acceptable or unacceptable group of cartridges the number of heated disagreements on the subject would not exist. After all my study and testing I believe the 410 slug is sufficient for deer assuming you also meet the two other area following this one.

But can we put some numbers to it, to the lethality of the 410 slug? If you read my sections on the 410 slug and testing 410 slugs you can see that most 410 slug have in excess of 700ft-lbs of kinetic energy at the muzzle. For comparison that is slightly more than most factory 357 Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun a little less than most factory 41 Remington Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun.

Although comparable in kinetic energy the 410 slug is a much different beast than either of these two well established hunting handgun calibers. The 410 slug although possessing a sizable amount of kinetic energy, it achieves this energy through the use of a light weight slug going relatively fast. A typical 357 Magnum hunting load is 158gr JHP and the 41 Remington Magnum are frequently loaded with 210 grain bullets. In comparison the 410 uses a relatively light slug ranging from about ~92gr to 114gr. So to achieve the energy it does so with a relative high velocity of 1750-1830fps, your 357mag and 41mag are both in the 1200-1300fps.

What does this mean to our terminal ballistics? It means that we have a fast light weight slug that dues to the hollow design of the drag stabilize foster slug is also a relatively fragile projectile. In my terminal ballistic testing into wet phone books the lighter Winchester and Remington slugs do fragment badly. And the one deer I have shot with Remington Sluggers the slugs was recover in relatively small pieces. This tendency to fragment means you may not get the penetration you want or need and it also mean that a hit on a large bone is very likely to greatly reduce further penetration of the lighter variety of 410 slugs. The heavier Federal and Brenneke slugs do hold up better with Brenneke slugs actually staying intact exceptionally well.

Now I have only shot a few unmodified Brenneke slugs since my primary 410 is only chamber for 2.5 inch shells and so I must modify the ammunition to make them work with my 9410 and thus they perform very differently than most 410 slugs. But even in the factory 3 inch form I would select Brenneke 410 slugs as the absolute best for muzzle energy, kinetic energy retain as they go down range, and terminal performance since they hold together much better than any other slug I have tested. I suspect this is due to their heavier weight and what I suspect is the use of a harder lead alloy than the other manufactures. That said I have to give Federal slugs a good recommendation too as they are nearly as heavy, expand very nicely but do not fragment easily and I think would leave a larger wound channel but I have no hunting evidence to support that speculation. The Brenneks on the other hand were used to take a fairly large buck and all three slugs passed clear through the deer.

But when it all comes down to it you the hunter needs to be comfortable that your chosen weapon and its ability to ethically kill your quarry. If the above has not convinced you the 410 slug is an acceptable deer cartridge than you can probably stop reading here as range and accuracy matter little if you are uncomfortable with the lethality of the 410 slug.

http://mcb-homis.com/deer9410/
I haven't used it but would if its all I had.
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Old October 2, 2009, 02:22 AM   #7
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I would say yes, if the distance wasn't too far and the shot placement was spot on. Here is a very well put together analysis of the .410 Slugs.

http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/

Little different from Old Grumps page.
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Old October 2, 2009, 07:53 AM   #8
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Depends?

It depends on the armor plating the deer in question are wearing. In the old days, they just ran around naked. With modern technology, they are able to shield themselves from weak bullets. In the old days, even a .25-35 could kill a skinny whitetail. These days, nothing less then some Ultra-Super Magnum will do.Thank God we still have the 50 BMG to fall back on!
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Old October 2, 2009, 08:09 AM   #9
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Old October 2, 2009, 08:44 AM   #10
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I wouldn't shoot people with a 100gr anything much less game. Vermin? Yes, but not slugs.
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Old October 2, 2009, 11:00 AM   #11
Rigby1962
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One thing I found in reading that article, is he gives a ME of 1065 ftlbs. That’s nearly 300 ft lbs over what Brenneke it self states. Brenneke has a mv of 1755 his would need to be 2100. If anything manufactures tend to be a little optimistic with their velocities.
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Old October 2, 2009, 01:50 PM   #12
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Not legal in Georgia.
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Old October 4, 2009, 11:19 AM   #13
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I have knowen folks who have done it. Some it worked for and some it did not. Just myself I think it would be a little light to use.
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Old October 4, 2009, 11:28 AM   #14
Pahoo
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To echo what peetzakilla and simonkenton have replied, Yes but may not be legal from state to state. I know that in most Midwest states, it is definitely not legal because of safety concerns. This has been in effect for so long that no one even asks anymore.

Be Safe !!!
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:00 PM   #15
treefarmernc
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Yes, .410 slugs will do well at short range. Even when using 12 ga slugs I only use them when my shot range is 50 yards or less such as small forest clearings. If longer range is needed then I pick up my rifles.

Pahoo.
Quote:
I know that in most Midwest states, it is definitely not legal because of safety concerns.
Just wandering if the mid west laws only excluded .410 slugs from being used. I have always heard that with any slug there is the chance of the skipping stone effect if shot level with the ground. I only use them when shooting down from a stand.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:19 PM   #16
CajunBass
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Ask her what she thinks.



I wouldn't necessarly recomend it, but it will work.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:49 PM   #17
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I suppose an expert marksman who carefully picked his shots could get by with it.
I don't think I would use it as a loaner gun to somebody who didn't have one and expect much to come of it.
Matter of fact if you don't even own a gun your capability with anything would be a little questionable, much less something on the fringe of adequate.
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Old October 4, 2009, 01:25 PM   #18
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Since this is for 'guests', I would say no. You would be putting a borderline cartridge in the hands of a shooter unfamiliar with the weapon. (Setting aside whether they are capable of the shot needed, to begin with.)
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Old October 4, 2009, 02:55 PM   #19
Pahoo
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treefarmernc
It varies from state to state and would have to be more specific as to what other guages or calibers are excluded. Only in recent years have they allowed centerfire handguns and very specific as to cartridges. Even more recent, center fire rifles in the "Lapland" counties of Iowa. This is the bottom two tiers of Iowa counties or as they say, where Missouri laps over into Iowa. It's really all in the details and really don't have them at this time. The .410 exclusion has been in effect for as long as I can recall.





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Old October 4, 2009, 04:42 PM   #20
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In my state 410 is a no but in OP's state it is a yes. Link below shows the states where it is legal.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=183319
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Old October 4, 2009, 04:52 PM   #21
Pahoo
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Thanks Old Grump !!!
This was a great link and looks to be pretty even on the states who can and those who can't use .410. Have never seen such a comprehensive listing. My compliments. Most of the states that prohibit .410, allow for centerfire rifles. Go figure ....


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Old October 4, 2009, 05:00 PM   #22
plainsman456
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It will do the job ,just keep in mind that shot placement will be the key.It has been used for a long time in the south before folks got something larger.Good Luck
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Old October 4, 2009, 07:40 PM   #23
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In Colorado you must use a minimun 24 caliber and have 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards to be legal for big game. I agree this would probably be very magrinal at close range and a 100 yards I would feel it would be very iffy. Also like others have said this is a tool for a proffessional not an untried weekend hunter. However I dont agree with the gentleman that comares the 410 to a 25-35. They dont even come close for comparison, the 25-35 has nearly a 1000 foot pounds at 100 yards.
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Old October 5, 2009, 12:26 PM   #24
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I grew up here in FL, and have seen many a whitetail deer fall to .410 slugs. My great grandaddy only hunted with .410's.
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Old October 5, 2009, 12:32 PM   #25
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treefarmernc
Just wandering if the mid west laws only excluded .410 slugs from being used. I have always heard that with any slug there is the chance of the skipping stone effect if shot level with the ground. I only use them when shooting down from a stand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahoo
Thanks Old Grump !!!
This was a great link and looks to be pretty even on the states who can and those who can't use .410. Have never seen such a comprehensive listing. My compliments. Most of the states that prohibit .410, allow for centerfire rifles. Go figure ....
I have never heard of any "danger" being the reasoning for the ban on 410 shotguns. It's entirely a matter of power. The "powers that be" in the areas wherein it is banned believe that the 410 is not enough gun for deer.

I have also never heard of a slug being dangerous because of "skipping". Southern NY state was for many years shotgun only, and a large portion is still off limits to rifles. We hunt exclusively with shotguns of 20ga and larger using only single projectile loads.
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