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Old August 6, 2012, 02:06 PM   #1
riff1973
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vintage ammo age?

i recently was given a bunch of what i believe is 1950's full and empty 12 gauge ammo boxes. i deal with coins on ebay and my uncle wanted me to sell them for him on my account. he got them from an old man that bought, shot, and saved all the boxes thinking he would load his own and reuse them. but i dont want to place them up without knowing for sure what era they are and if it is even legal for me to sell the full boxes without a FOID card. any help is much obliged.
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Old August 6, 2012, 02:10 PM   #2
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they seem to have a date code, with the earliest being '49, and the latest '64, but im not 100% positive about that.
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Old August 6, 2012, 09:39 PM   #3
Mike Irwin
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OK, I'm not nearly as good with shotshell boxes as with metallic cartridge boxes, so some of this is just supposition and things half remembered...

In your first picture...

The two Federals at the bottom are probably late late 1950s to early 1960s.

The Western Xpert, in the middle, I believe that box design was used from the late 1940s to the late 1950s or possibly later.

The Federal box beside it, not a clue.

The Federal Champion at the top, 1970s, into the early 1980s. I shot a lot of boxes like that.

The Peters box, probably mid 1950s. I have one of those in my basement. My Dad bough the shells new with his Ithaca in 1952 or 1953.

In the last picture, the Remington Green and Red box, late 1940s to mid to late 1950s.

The Peters Victor Target loads... I THINK that box design was rolled out in the 1930s, just before WW II, and continued through to the early 1950s after post war production resumed.
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Old August 7, 2012, 08:48 AM   #4
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thanks a lot. what about the legality of selling the full boxes? is anyone allowed to sell vintage ammo?
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Old August 7, 2012, 09:40 AM   #5
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Unless there are local or state laws against it for some reason, selling vintage ammunition is perfectly legal.

Don't expect to get a lot...
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Old August 7, 2012, 12:48 PM   #6
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The red/yellow Winchester Xpert is mid-60s to early 70s. I remember buying those boxes when I started hunting. The yellow Xpert and Ranger ammo boxes with the big red W are from the 1970s. The blue/yellow Winchester boxes I would guess are 1950s or so.

The Peters Power Piston trap loads are late 60s to early 70s. The Power Piston was Remington's new molded plastic wad. The blue Victor boxes are probably 1960s.

The green/red Remington boxes are late 40s to early 50s.

The Federal Champion target loads are early 80s. Shot lots of those in trap leagues.

The Federal Monark target loads look like 50s to 60s.

The Peters High Velocity loads are late 50s to early 1960s. I remember seeing those in my Dad's stuff when I was a kid.

Nice trip down memory lane.
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Old August 8, 2012, 05:54 AM   #7
riff1973
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thanks. was peters owned by remington? and western winchester? the winchester and western boxes look very similar, and the peters shells also say remington on the bronze part around the primer. forgive my lack of the proper name for this part of the shell.
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Old August 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #8
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Du Pont bought Remington in the late 1920s or early 1930s, and in 1934 Remington bought Peters.

In 1888 Remington and Union Metallic Cartridge Company were both purchased by Hartley and Partners, a sporting goods chain. That's why you see the UMC associated with Remington.

Western Cartridge Company was a division of what would become known as the Olin Corporation. They purchased Winchester in 1931.
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Old August 8, 2012, 12:21 PM   #9
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wow. this is a helpful site. thanks guys.
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Old August 10, 2012, 01:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Don't expect to get a lot...
On the contrary...U may be surprised what those boxes might bring..especially the full boxes..There is a market for vintage ammo...I collect shotshell boxes..wooden cases..ammo..etc....
I really like the Peters High Velocity with the duck....
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Old August 10, 2012, 07:58 AM   #11
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I'm fairly cognizant as to what ammo boxes bring. I see them regularly at shows.

IF he were to get full freight for everything in the pictures, he'd realize maybe $1,000.

A more realistic number for everything to a dealer is probably 1/4 to 1/3rd of that. And that's only for pristine, or damned close to it, full boxes.

There's nothing there that is either rare or uncommon, and most of those boxes were produced in the millions and sold for years.
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Old August 10, 2012, 09:13 AM   #12
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Ebay won't allow ammo sales to my knowledge, but the empties are fine. You could sell the full ones locally or somewhere like this.

Couple of years back I came across a full case (20 boxes) of those blue/yellow Western Expert shells in 16 ga. 9 shot (or 8 shot). The idiot who had it had opened the shipping box to look at them , but other than that they were intact aside from scuff from contacting each other in the box. I paid $200 for the whole case and thought I got a pretty good deal. I thought finding a full case was rather unusual.
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:42 AM   #13
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i was thinking around $20-25 a full box(25 shotshells), and sold one so far at $25 on craigslist. no big deal either way. like i said, unc got them free from a friend of his.
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Old August 10, 2012, 11:20 AM   #14
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"Ebay won't allow ammo sales to my knowledge"......
Yeah, i found that out. people do it, but im not going to risk losing my ebay account. craigslist prohibits ammo and firearms sales as well, but if you put them up stating they are collectibles, and not for shooting, people tend not to flag them. i have not had any of my ads flagged so far.
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Old August 11, 2012, 06:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
i was thinking around $20-25 a full box(25 shotshells), and sold one so far at $25 on craigslist. no big deal either way. like i said, unc got them free from a friend of his.
Riff...many old ammo boxes..full or not..are worth something...As much as U have there it is worth taking the time to sell..whether it is $1000 or 1/4 of that....What I see is in really good shape....I bought and sold a lot on Ebay...I would split the empty boxes into sets (like one of each..since U have some that are the same..then sell one set at a time) JMO....They can be sold on Gunbroker....
Any ammo boxes that age..in that shape..are not exactly common....No boxes that will bring $100 or more each..but so what....Good luck with your sale....
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Old August 15, 2012, 09:30 PM   #16
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You can list on armslist.com
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Old August 16, 2012, 06:21 PM   #17
riff1973
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thanks bush pilot. i did just that.
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Old August 16, 2012, 08:18 PM   #18
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2 9/16 16 ga

Riff -

you inspired me to dig this box out of the closet. Ive always wondered how old it was and what it might be worth. Didnt realize we had some shotgun shell box experts on here.

So, what do yall think about this one? Full box of 2 9/16 16 gauge shells. I found it in some of Grandpas stuff after he passed. Always wondered about these because the only 16 he had that I knew of was an old single shot. No idea what brand that one was - one of my other cousins inherited it. The only gun ive ever seen chambered for 2 9/16 was a really old Browning A5. Any ideas?
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Old August 17, 2012, 08:19 AM   #19
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That's a very interesting box...

I THINK, based on things I know about the Super X line and some quick and dirty research I did on line, that that particular box can be narrowed down to a VERY tight time frame... 1946 to 1948.

That's very unusual because it's often impossible to get a tight focus on the date unless you have actual purchase records or you're able to get lot number info from the manufacturer.

Here's why I think it's 1946 to 1948...

The first clue is the "Super Seal Cup Wad," which came into use in 1946 or 1947.

The other clue is "Rolled Crimp." Western quit using rolled crimps and over shot wads in 1947 to 1948, and adopted star crimps, which they called the Super Seal Crimp, and which would have been printed on the box in place of the Rolled Crimp text.

The fact that the box is full works in your favor.

The box isn't in great shape, though, so that's a minus.

All told, though, that box of shells is probably worth between $25 and $50.

These days shotshells have been standardized at 2 3/4" and 3" for 20, 16, and 12 gauge.

That really came about in the years right after WW II, although the movement had been on for some years before that.

Prior to World War II, and especially prior to WW I, shotshells were widely varied lengths.

The old industry "standard" lengths were:

12 gauge - 2 5/8"

16 gauge - 2 9/16"

20 gauge - 2 1/2"

They became the "standard" lengths only because most of the major manufacturers adopted those lengths.

Prior to that there was a WIDE range of lengths, with just about every big gun maker doing their own thing.

I THINK the 16 gauge 2 9/16" became the standard because Winchester either introduced it or adopted it.
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Old August 17, 2012, 04:28 PM   #20
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Thanks for the great information Mike. It's amazing you were able to narrow it down to that small of a time frame. I probably wouldn't sell them unless they were worth a lot more and I really needed the money. I think it's a really cool old box of shells myself. Might wrap them up and give them to dad this Christmas. He was born in 1947. Kinda cool to think grandpa bought that box of shells right around the time of dads birth.

Come to think of it, I think a box of the 2 5/8. 12 ga shells somewhere too. Grandma had me clean out one of his closets about 2 years after he passed and I found all kind of neat old stuff, along with all of his reloading equipment. She let me keep all of it. I need to go back through all that stuff. I know there were several old shotgun and rifle shell boxes along with some really old bullets for reloading. I'll post if I find any more cool stuff.
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Old August 20, 2012, 02:52 PM   #21
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misterE....Those old shotshell boxes can look really cool displayed....
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Old August 20, 2012, 07:59 PM   #22
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that's the great thing about shotshell boxes - they are large enough for some really nice graphics. Most boxes over the years have been pretty plain but some have had outstanding art on them.
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