The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 3, 2012, 10:10 PM   #1
M4BGRINGO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Posts: 241
Single Action Question

New to single action revolvers, here's my question: Does the ejector rod normally run along the edge of the cylinder, or should it run down the center of the cylinder, to eject the brass?

Mine was hitting the cylinder on most of the chambers, would only go down a few. I have no idea why it isn't simply centered in each chamber, then it wouldn't hit anything.
M4BGRINGO is offline  
Old August 3, 2012, 11:49 PM   #2
Straitshot
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2011
Location: West Texas
Posts: 98
Ejecting empties from a single action.

When you are ready to eject empty rounds you bring the single action to half cock just as if you were going to load it. You can then freely rotate the cylinder to align with the ejector rod to eject the empties out the loading gate.
Straitshot is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 06:28 AM   #3
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
When you are ready to eject empty rounds you bring the single action to half cock just as if you were going to load it. You can then freely rotate the cylinder to align with the ejector rod to eject the empties out the loading gate.
Works great for SAA/clones, and old model Blackhawks, but does not work for new model or 'converted' Rugers...There is no half cock, and on most unmodified new models, the cylinder only rotates one way...

As to the OP's question,If you are the same guy, I've been following your issues on that 'other' site...

The ejector rod is not centered, as that is not the design...On .357, the rod rides almost on the throat of the chambers...On my Super Blackhawk .44 Mag, the rod is about 3/16" off the wall...

I sincerely believe that when Ruger returned the gun to you, that they believe it is in spec...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 06:55 AM   #4
tlm225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 661
The ejector rod does not run down the center of the cylinder (you may be confusing how a double action revolver with a swing out cylinder works).

With the loading gate open, You will need to align each individual chamber with the ejection rod.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
tlm225 is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 07:25 AM   #5
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,347
He used 'cylinder' when he means 'chamber'...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 11:51 AM   #6
Crunchy Frog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 392
Ruger introduced a "reverse indexing pawl" on the New Vaquero that aligns the chamber with the ejection rod. I also have a Blackhawk built on the NV frame that has this feature.

The guns built on the larger Blackhawk frame (such as the "original" Vaquero) do not. I tried to unload one and realized how spoiled I am.

Some cowboy action shooters perform a "free spin modification" on the "original" Vaqueros. I don't know whether there may be any drawbacks to that.
Crunchy Frog is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 12:04 PM   #7
TennJed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2010
Posts: 1,523
What model SA is it?
__________________
Find out just how tall I am
By jumping in the middle of a river
TennJed is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 12:11 PM   #8
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
TennJed only good reply.
What model SA is it?
e.g. my Ruger Single Six rotates when the loading gate is opened. Line up rod with CHAMBER and push. Simple.
SAs are simple. Get more familiar with yours before you put ammunition in.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 12:41 PM   #9
TennJed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2010
Posts: 1,523
Double post sorry
__________________
Find out just how tall I am
By jumping in the middle of a river
TennJed is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 04:19 PM   #10
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
TennJed only good reply.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...1&postcount=25
Salmoneye is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 05:19 PM   #11
M4BGRINGO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Posts: 241
This is a Ruger .30 Carbine S/A revolver.

I don't understand why the ejector rod isn't moved far enough away from the frame so the rod goes down the center of the chamber, or whatever you would like to call each hole in the cylinder.............

It rides on the edge, not down the center. On most chamers it hits before it gets into the hole, on a few it actually clears and gets into the hole to push the empty brass out.

I didn't buy this gun and throw ammo in it at the range. The shop I bought it from showed me how to remove/install the cylinder, how to load/unload it. I have 10 other revolvers but they are all S&W D/A models. Brand new out of the box it was bad. Cylinder was almost impossible to remove and install. Ejector rod did not work.

Sent it back, a month later got it back, now cylinder is easy to remove and install. INITIALLY the ejector rod worked fine in all 6 chambers, after some shooting it works in 2 of the 6..............

I do not understand why they (Ruger) would not have the ejector rod go down the CENTER of the hole, it is plenty long enough to hit the bottom of the brass and push it out. No need to try and catch the edge of the brass at the top where the bullet used to sit.

So, how do other models of S/A guns work? Ejector rod offset from the center like this one, or do they go down the center?
M4BGRINGO is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 06:50 PM   #12
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,725
Quote:
So, how do other models of S/A guns work? Ejector rod offset from the center like this one, or do they go down the center?
None of them go down the center.
Hawg is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 06:55 PM   #13
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
This is common on the .30 Carbine models. The gun was designed for cartridges that have a larger dia. than .30 Carbine. You need to line the chamber up with the ejector rod. No room for slop. The rod is running right down the edge of the chamber. On larger chamberings it's not so close. If they tried to center the rod on the chamber every caliber would require a different ejector rod housing. The .30 Car. is a small hole. It is also possible that the tip of the rod is very slightly bent. Ruger will fix this if you want to ship it to them. It's fun to watch people's reaction at a range when you set one of those off ain't it? My God, you need earplugs AND muffs to shoot one of those.

Last edited by drail; August 4, 2012 at 07:02 PM.
drail is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 07:36 PM   #14
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,312
Assuming the gun is otherwise in good shape, my solution would be to rig it to free-spin once the loading gate is open, assuming this is a Ruger "New Model" action (made from 1973 forward).

You can alter the pawl or buy a pawl already altered, although you'd probably have to fit that pawl to your gun. Easier to modify the pawl you have:

http://www.ktgunsmith.com/freespinpawl.htm

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/FreeSpin.html

With the loading gate open the cylinder will now "free spin" to wherever you want, allowing proper ejection.
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 08:03 PM   #15
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,347
M4BGRINGO Wrote:

Quote:
INITIALLY the ejector rod worked fine in all 6 chambers, after some shooting it works in 2 of the 6..............
Ummm...

Not according to your original post on this issue before it went back to Ruger it didn't:

The store owner was showing me how to load/unload the rounds. When we were turning the cylinder the ejector rod would go into some chambers correctly,

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...1&postcount=25

Which is it?

ADDING:

As I said in the original thread, I firmly believe this is an example of you (and your FFL) not being familiar with Ruger 'New Model' Blackhawk operation...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 08:41 PM   #16
M4BGRINGO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Posts: 241
When we first opened the box and the FFL removed the cylinder to remove the yellow plastic safety ring he had a heck of a time getting the cylinder back in.

Then I asked him how the loading gate/ejector rod worked. That is when we found the problem with the ejector rod not going into most of the chambers. It fit 2 of 6. The cylinder will freely spin wherever we want it to, it does not stop in a fixed position.

We sent it back to Ruger, waited 4 weeks, then got it back. The FFL took the cylinder out, put it back in, no problem. I then did the same. We both checked the ejector rod in each chamber, no problem.

Took it to the range, ran 18 rounds through it, no problem.

After the last 6, big problem. Ejector rod once again only went into 2 of the 6 chambers. We removed the cylinder (very easily) and used a barrel-clearing rod to remove the other 4 piece of brass still in the gun. Put the cylinder back in (no problem) and tried the ejector rod once again, no dice.

Now I am very inexperienced with this type of handgun, but the fellow at the range that was helping me is very experienced. He advised me to send it back again. Yes, I could have easily bent the rod out a bit to get it to fit each chamber, but I want to know that the chamber lines-up correctly with the barrel before I use it again.

I was suprised that the rounds were not as loud as I thought they would be. My normal ear plugs were more than enough. My .357's and .44 Mags are far louder.

I bought this gun just for the fun of it and to own something from Ruger. Besides, a friend gave me 1000 rounds of .30 Carbine so I had a reason to buy a new gun!
M4BGRINGO is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 09:23 PM   #17
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,515
Have you checked to make sure the ejector rod housing screw (at the front of the ejector rod housing) is tight? If it comes loose, and they often do, the ejector rod will be out of alignment and will create the condition you describe.

If the screw is loose, you can use some blue Loctite on the threads and crank it down. That should hold it.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 09:30 PM   #18
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Some years ago I had a New Model Super Blackhawk and the ejector rod hit the edge of the chamber when it recoiled (spring was weak I guess). I didn't notice anything til accuracy went south on it. It ruined what was the most accurate handgun I've ever owned. When using the ejector rod to unload hole the cylinder in line and it's not a problem.
pete2 is offline  
Old August 4, 2012, 10:47 PM   #19
FloridaVeteran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 399
I own what I believe is one of the first 100 of these .30 Carbine New Model Rugers and did not have this problem. I did have some problems getting the cylinder to rotate between shots - it seemed like the case was slamming into the back plate but I can't remember for sure, not having fired it since 1975.

Yes, the flame is pretty awesome. Not a very practical handgun, but neither are my open-tops.

As for the pawl question, I owned and later sold a couple of .357 New Vaqueros - had them modified with/for a free-spin pawl while they were being slicked up. With Cowboy loads and possibly help from the Frankford Arsenal brass polish I tumble with, I never have to use the ejection rod at all with any of the half dozen Cimarron and Pietta .45LCs I use, and I don't remember having any unloading issues at all with those NVs, though I might have had to use the rod on those lighter-weight cases.

This discussion reminds me a bit of a different thread where someone was discussing the merits of a .22LR single-action. A .22 case is not going to fall out, at least in my experience, so you wind up spending a whole lot of time pushing an ejector rod instead of firing a couple hundred cheap rounds of ammo out of a swing-out cylinder revolver or even better, an ugly old slab-side 9-shot top-break.
FloridaVeteran is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 04:05 PM   #20
M4BGRINGO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Posts: 241
Well, got it back again and this time it seems fine. Some rounds come out easily, some are very tough and go quite away out the back! Some of the brass was splitting too. It is a fun gun to shoot indoors, that was the entire purpose of buying this thing. I already have plenty of other revolvers, but we are not allowed to shoot magnums indoors. The old Spanish loads have a very nice flame, makes it worthwhile to shoot.
M4BGRINGO is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 07:59 PM   #21
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
Two things to consider - almost all Ruger SA revolver will have a pretty rough chamber finish - polishing the ridges out of the chambers is a big help. Also the .30 Carbine case has a slight taper - it tends to want to stick in a lot of chambers if they're not smooth like a wedge. I had a friend with a .30 Carbine Blackhawk for whom I loaded ammo. He wanted full power GI loads. No problem. I never saw a case stick in his gun but I stuck a few in my carbide reloading dies and they were a sumbtich to get out. That was when I learned about good case lube. On your ejector rod problem it is possible that it was installed with the wrong housing which would mislocate the rod. It should run close to but not touch the chamber walls. His gun would produce a basketball sized fireball on every shot and you could feel the pressure wave in your ribcage. Completely pointless but much fun.

Last edited by drail; September 3, 2012 at 08:05 PM.
drail is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 08:10 PM   #22
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Some of the brass was splitting too.
Not to familiar with the 30 out of a handgun but if the brass is splitting from being fired something doesn't sound right.

Are the rounds handloads?

Is the brass that's splitting coming out of the same chambers?

Is the brass splitting length- wise ?
shortwave is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 08:20 PM   #23
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
.30 Carb cases have thick walls and the brass will work harden and become brittle from firing and reloading. Oversize chambers and inability of the brass to expand and spring back can cause problems. Some import brass may be considered one shot stuff (at least in your gun's chambers)
drail is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 10:04 PM   #24
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Thanks for the explanation drail.

Have shot a lot of 30 cal. out of a carbine but have never messed with the stuff out of a handgun or reloaded any.

Would you say that there's a problem of sorts with either the ammo or a chamber/chambers with the cases splitting on M4 ?
shortwave is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 10:33 PM   #25
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
I would say there could be a problem if the chamber dimensions are not held within fairly tight specifications. With a tapered case in a chamber with a little too much headspace the case is being shoved back into the rear of the chamber which is slightly larger. The case is getting a real workout. I also tend to think that when the cartridge was developed for military use very little thought was given to possible reloading issues. I never really undertsood the logic of chambering a Blackhawk in this caliber but Ruger has sold all they made. I guess a certain percentage of people really like all the noise and blast.
drail is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12451 seconds with 7 queries