Recoil: 44 Mag vs 30-3- Carbine

CMGibson · July 31, 2012, 07:42 PM

In the shortest versions of these weapons which has the harder recoil? Thanks!

Scorch · July 31, 2012, 09:33 PM

44 Mag and 30-30 in the same configuration carbine will be about equal in recoil. They both generate about the same energy, and that whole "equal and opposite" thing applies. The 44 mag might technically have a little less recoil, due to lower pressure and less powder being burnt.

idek · August 1, 2012, 12:01 AM

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

This chart shows some data regarding .44 and 30-30 recoil.

I've copied and posted the relevant data below. The numbers in parenthesis show grains and muzzle velocity. The other numbers (from left to right) show gun weight in pounds, recoil energy in foot pounds, and recoil velocity.

.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (160 at 2400) 7.5 12.7 10.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7

.44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1760) 7.5 11.2 9.8
.44 Rem. Mag. (275 at 1580) 7.5 11.4 9.9

Since the gun weights are the same for all of these, it gives a nice apples-to-apples comparison. I don't what the specific barrel lengths are, but it likely wouldn't make a significant difference. As Scorch said, it appears to be about a wash between the two.

Picher · August 1, 2012, 10:42 AM

Although they have similar recoil energy, the .30-30 Win come back a bit quicker, due to the higher muzzle velocity.

Increased rifle weight, good stock design/fit, and modern recoil pads can minimize "felt recoil" dramatically.

PetahW · August 1, 2012, 10:47 AM

Any felt difference in recoil between the two would most likely be to stock config/drop differences - especially if one has a squared-comb type carbine stock & the other doesn't.

.

CMGibson · August 2, 2012, 05:59 PM

Thanks guys. I know all my questions are about recoil. Reason being I have a bad shoulder and want a carbine type lever action that wont make it worse. I have owned several AK rifles would not want anymore recoil than the 762x39

The 30-30 sounds good but apparently max capacity in its shorter versions is 5 rounds?

jmr40 · August 2, 2012, 06:30 PM

The 44 will have more recoil. Read idek's post. That is showing recoil with both guns in 7.5 lb rifles and the recoil being basically equal. But most44's will be at least a pound lighter than most 30-30's, so the recoil will be even more apparent. The individual load matters a lot. There are some pretty hot loads with heavier bullets available for the 44 than are possible with the 30-3

I own both and the difference is not huge with most factory loads, but noticeable. When you move up to some of the hotter loads such as those offered by Buffalo Bore or Double tap, or hot handloads the 44 will rap you pretty good in a 6 lb rifle.

idek · August 2, 2012, 07:32 PM

That's a good point about gun weight.

Comparing Marlin's offerings, their 336 30-30 is listed at 7 lbs., and their 1894 44 mag. is listed at 6.5 lbs. I don't know how accurate those estimates are (my 1894c weighs 1/2 pound more than they claim), but 30-30s probably will run a bit heavier.

Henry offers both guns with octagonal barrels, and these are both heavy, listed 8.68 lbs for the 44, 8.3 lbs. for the 30-30. They also have a standard barrel 30-30 at 7 lbs.

Of course, there are other brands, including winchester, uberti, rossi, and mossberg that make/made rifles in these calibers. The point is that the amount of recoil energy is about even to begin with. The other factors: gun fit, gun weight, and ammo selection, are what will ultimately determine which feels better on the shoulder.

micksis86 · August 3, 2012, 08:28 AM

I have both in a marlin 1894 and 336 as Scorch said recoil is about the same i find the 30-30 to be a little sharper but that probably has more to do with the recoil pad than the cartridge.

I don't find recoil to be significant in either although it does depend how short a barrel you're talking about.

I fired a 16" 30-30 win 94 and the recoil was noticeable.

g.willikers · August 3, 2012, 09:06 AM

Don't forget the .44 can also use the much less recoiling .44 Special rounds.

CMGibson · August 3, 2012, 04:45 PM

When I started getting interested in leverguns my first instinct was to buy the Marlin 357 carbine. The more I read about it and for that matter all the handgun based leverguns it sounds like it is very hard to find new ones that operate without flaw.

I have also picked up that leverguns that use rifle cartridges do not have these kind of problems.

Is that a fair judgment? 30-30 levers have consistently smooth operation?

CMGibson · August 3, 2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Don't forget the .44 can also use the much less recoiling .44 Special rounds.

If there is a significant difference in recoil that may be the way for me to go. So the 44 Special ammo is what about the same power as a 357 load?

gak · August 5, 2012, 06:16 PM

Having read Chuck Hawks' and many other charts over the years, they've all baffled me. This is one of those "real world vs data" things. The felt recoil from my .44 Mag Rossi 92 trapper (16"), while abrupt in heavier loads, is much less than my same configuration 94 Trapper .30-30. "Boom" vs "Ka-Boom!" If anything, the 92 is maybe 1/2-3/4 pound lighter, otherwise similar dimensionally. As others have said, neither is overly objectionable--especially when extended to 20" where they shine more anyway as useful platforms IMO--but the 94 is more obnoxious. Relatively speaking, I'll shoot the .44 shorty all afternoon compared to the .30-30.

m&p45acp10+1 · August 5, 2012, 08:03 PM

I would say go with either one. Start reloading for the one you get. Tailor the loads for you.

With Trail Boss the .30/30 or .44 Mag are very tame. You could shoot them till you run out of ammo. Then you will curse yourself for not having more brass to reload.

2ndtimearound · August 5, 2012, 09:24 PM

I have both a 1894 Marlin 44, and a 30-30-wihchester 94. Both weigh in at 7lbs. The 30-30 shoots Remington 170grn soft points, the 1894 likes 300grn bulets the best. We have tried several loads Speer flat points,Nosler hallow points amd eaven some Renear flat points all 300grn. Lost my loading buddy so now I shoot factory loads and Hornady Custom in 300grn hallow points shoot the best. My 12year old hunted with both rifles last year and loved shooting both.There is just a slight bit of differance, but the 30-30 has just a bit more recoil than the 44.But mothing real noticable. The 30-30 will cive you a 150yd range and the 44 a 100yd shot, but we hunt woods and small fields. See if someone will let you shoot both and then you can make a sound decisiom. Good luck and whichever you chose you wont be disapointed.

Bob Wright · August 7, 2012, 05:22 PM

If I may share one observation:

When I was in the Army, the M1 rifle had a pretty healthy kick to it when I fired it. Not too long ago I had the opportunity to fire off a clip from a friend's M1. Recoil was not near as bad as it used to be. Then it dawned on me: Then I was 145 pounds, now 190 pounds. There is a lot more of ME behind that buttplate!

Bob Wright

Guv · August 8, 2012, 09:21 PM

I have shot 125, 150 and 170 gr in my 336, the 125 Fed hp has the sharpest recoil of all. Maybe the velocity of the recoil (rifle) is greater with the 125's?

Ozzieman · August 11, 2012, 08:36 AM

I have a Marlin 94 and a new Ruger 77/44 in 44mag.
I haven’t shot 30-30’s in years so I can’t really help on that but the Ruger being shorter and the design of the stock is so much better I can shoot max reloads all day and its pleasant. Those same rounds in the Marlin do thump a lot more but I think it has more to do with the very thin but of the stock of the Marlin. Also the lever action doesn’t fit my shoulder as well.
If you have your mind set on a lever action go with the 44 and get cowboy loads which are easy shooting or reload 44 mags to 44 special loads then they are like shooting a 22.
Or go with a bolt action like the Ruger.

http://www.ruger.com/products/rotary...44/models.html

badlander · August 12, 2012, 01:28 PM

I have an 1894 in .45 colt. with cowboy loads It has no recoil! I'm sure A .44 mag could be loaded down to whatever you can handel. warm them up A bit for hunting.

shafter · August 15, 2012, 10:40 AM

I've got a Rossi 92 in 357 mag and its a sweet rifle! Very little recoil and it feeds absolutely anything. I bought it used for a tremendous price so I have no idea if it's been worked on. For all I know it could have had a quality action job done.

lefteyedom · August 16, 2012, 04:11 AM

The Marlin 336 stock seems to manage the recoil energy transfer better than the narrow Winchester 94 stocks

A 336 with a good recoil pad and a stock cut to the properly length of pull for you, would be easy on the shoulder.

If you are going to hunt deer with this rifle then get Hornady's 30-30 Win 160 gr FTX® LEVERevolution® ( yes I cut and pasted). With this load you have a 300 yard deer rifle

Just saying

CMGibson · August 16, 2012, 05:32 AM

Thanks for the great input guys! Im about ready to put up another question on a new thread.

CMGibson · August 16, 2012, 05:44 AM

Anyone have experience with a slip on recoil pad like Kick Killer?

http://www.kick-killer-recoil-pads.com/

Looks pretty cool.

SRH78 · August 16, 2012, 08:24 PM

The only issue is that they effectively change your stock length. I can see using one for sighting in at the bench then removing it to go hunting.

Guv · August 16, 2012, 09:08 PM

If you reload or not a pistol chambered lever gun will be more useful, but also more expensive. A .357 is a pretty sweet general purpose gun but getting hard to find.

July 31, 2012, 07:42 PM	#1
CMGibson Member Join Date: May 8, 2012 Posts: 28	Recoil: 44 Mag vs 30-3- Carbine In the shortest versions of these weapons which has the harder recoil? Thanks!

July 31, 2012, 09:33 PM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 11,044	44 Mag and 30-30 in the same configuration carbine will be about equal in recoil. They both generate about the same energy, and that whole "equal and opposite" thing applies. The 44 mag might technically have a little less recoil, due to lower pressure and less powder being burnt. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Taylor Machine

August 1, 2012, 10:42 AM	#4
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 2,312	Although they have similar recoil energy, the .30-30 Win come back a bit quicker, due to the higher muzzle velocity. Increased rifle weight, good stock design/fit, and modern recoil pads can minimize "felt recoil" dramatically. __________________ If I can't be with the rifle I love, I love the rifle I'm with!!

August 2, 2012, 05:59 PM	#6
CMGibson Member Join Date: May 8, 2012 Posts: 28	Thanks guys. I know all my questions are about recoil. Reason being I have a bad shoulder and want a carbine type lever action that wont make it worse. I have owned several AK rifles would not want anymore recoil than the 762x39 The 30-30 sounds good but apparently max capacity in its shorter versions is 5 rounds? Last edited by CMGibson; August 2, 2012 at 06:49 PM.

August 3, 2012, 08:28 AM	#9
micksis86 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2009 Posts: 412	I have both in a marlin 1894 and 336 as Scorch said recoil is about the same i find the 30-30 to be a little sharper but that probably has more to do with the recoil pad than the cartridge. I don't find recoil to be significant in either although it does depend how short a barrel you're talking about. I fired a 16" 30-30 win 94 and the recoil was noticeable. __________________ Never argue with morons, they will lower you down to their level and beat you with experience.

August 1, 2012, 12:01 AM	#3
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 461	http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm This chart shows some data regarding .44 and 30-30 recoil. I've copied and posted the relevant data below. The numbers in parenthesis show grains and muzzle velocity. The other numbers (from left to right) show gun weight in pounds, recoil energy in foot pounds, and recoil velocity. .30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5 .30-30 Win. (160 at 2400) 7.5 12.7 10.5 .30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7 .44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1760) 7.5 11.2 9.8 .44 Rem. Mag. (275 at 1580) 7.5 11.4 9.9 Since the gun weights are the same for all of these, it gives a nice apples-to-apples comparison. I don't what the specific barrel lengths are, but it likely wouldn't make a significant difference. As Scorch said, it appears to be about a wash between the two.

August 1, 2012, 10:47 AM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 3,290	Any felt difference in recoil between the two would most likely be to stock config/drop differences - especially if one has a squared-comb type carbine stock & the other doesn't. .

August 2, 2012, 06:30 PM	#7
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 4,498	The 44 will have more recoil. Read idek's post. That is showing recoil with both guns in 7.5 lb rifles and the recoil being basically equal. But most44's will be at least a pound lighter than most 30-30's, so the recoil will be even more apparent. The individual load matters a lot. There are some pretty hot loads with heavier bullets available for the 44 than are possible with the 30-3 I own both and the difference is not huge with most factory loads, but noticeable. When you move up to some of the hotter loads such as those offered by Buffalo Bore or Double tap, or hot handloads the 44 will rap you pretty good in a 6 lb rifle.

August 2, 2012, 07:32 PM	#8
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 461	That's a good point about gun weight. Comparing Marlin's offerings, their 336 30-30 is listed at 7 lbs., and their 1894 44 mag. is listed at 6.5 lbs. I don't know how accurate those estimates are (my 1894c weighs 1/2 pound more than they claim), but 30-30s probably will run a bit heavier. Henry offers both guns with octagonal barrels, and these are both heavy, listed 8.68 lbs for the 44, 8.3 lbs. for the 30-30. They also have a standard barrel 30-30 at 7 lbs. Of course, there are other brands, including winchester, uberti, rossi, and mossberg that make/made rifles in these calibers. The point is that the amount of recoil energy is about even to begin with. The other factors: gun fit, gun weight, and ammo selection, are what will ultimately determine which feels better on the shoulder.

August 3, 2012, 09:06 AM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 2,544	Don't forget the .44 can also use the much less recoiling .44 Special rounds. __________________ Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.

August 3, 2012, 04:45 PM	#11
CMGibson Member Join Date: May 8, 2012 Posts: 28	When I started getting interested in leverguns my first instinct was to buy the Marlin 357 carbine. The more I read about it and for that matter all the handgun based leverguns it sounds like it is very hard to find new ones that operate without flaw. I have also picked up that leverguns that use rifle cartridges do not have these kind of problems. Is that a fair judgment? 30-30 levers have consistently smooth operation?

August 5, 2012, 06:16 PM	#13
gak Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2005 Posts: 2,715	Having read Chuck Hawks' and many other charts over the years, they've all baffled me. This is one of those "real world vs data" things. The felt recoil from my .44 Mag Rossi 92 trapper (16"), while abrupt in heavier loads, is much less than my same configuration 94 Trapper .30-30. "Boom" vs "Ka-Boom!" If anything, the 92 is maybe 1/2-3/4 pound lighter, otherwise similar dimensionally. As others have said, neither is overly objectionable--especially when extended to 20" where they shine more anyway as useful platforms IMO--but the 94 is more obnoxious. Relatively speaking, I'll shoot the .44 shorty all afternoon compared to the .30-30.

August 5, 2012, 08:03 PM	#14
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,117	I would say go with either one. Start reloading for the one you get. Tailor the loads for you. With Trail Boss the .30/30 or .44 Mag are very tame. You could shoot them till you run out of ammo. Then you will curse yourself for not having more brass to reload. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

August 5, 2012, 09:24 PM	#15
2ndtimearound Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2012 Location: burlington nc Posts: 12	I have both a 1894 Marlin 44, and a 30-30-wihchester 94. Both weigh in at 7lbs. The 30-30 shoots Remington 170grn soft points, the 1894 likes 300grn bulets the best. We have tried several loads Speer flat points,Nosler hallow points amd eaven some Renear flat points all 300grn. Lost my loading buddy so now I shoot factory loads and Hornady Custom in 300grn hallow points shoot the best. My 12year old hunted with both rifles last year and loved shooting both.There is just a slight bit of differance, but the 30-30 has just a bit more recoil than the 44.But mothing real noticable. The 30-30 will cive you a 150yd range and the 44 a 100yd shot, but we hunt woods and small fields. See if someone will let you shoot both and then you can make a sound decisiom. Good luck and whichever you chose you wont be disapointed.

August 7, 2012, 05:22 PM	#16
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 1,250	If I may share one observation: When I was in the Army, the M1 rifle had a pretty healthy kick to it when I fired it. Not too long ago I had the opportunity to fire off a clip from a friend's M1. Recoil was not near as bad as it used to be. Then it dawned on me: Then I was 145 pounds, now 190 pounds. There is a lot more of ME behind that buttplate! Bob Wright

August 8, 2012, 09:21 PM	#17
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 272	I have shot 125, 150 and 170 gr in my 336, the 125 Fed hp has the sharpest recoil of all. Maybe the velocity of the recoil (rifle) is greater with the 125's?

August 11, 2012, 08:36 AM	#18
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 4,325	I have a Marlin 94 and a new Ruger 77/44 in 44mag. I haven’t shot 30-30’s in years so I can’t really help on that but the Ruger being shorter and the design of the stock is so much better I can shoot max reloads all day and its pleasant. Those same rounds in the Marlin do thump a lot more but I think it has more to do with the very thin but of the stock of the Marlin. Also the lever action doesn’t fit my shoulder as well. If you have your mind set on a lever action go with the 44 and get cowboy loads which are easy shooting or reload 44 mags to 44 special loads then they are like shooting a 22. Or go with a bolt action like the Ruger. http://www.ruger.com/products/rotary...44/models.html Last edited by Ozzieman; August 11, 2012 at 10:27 AM.

August 12, 2012, 01:28 PM	#19
badlander Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: So. Fla Posts: 302	I have an 1894 in .45 colt. with cowboy loads It has no recoil! I'm sure A .44 mag could be loaded down to whatever you can handel. warm them up A bit for hunting. __________________ We have room for all of Alaska's wildlife. Right next to the mashed potatos- Sarah Palin

August 15, 2012, 10:40 AM	#20
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,034	I've got a Rossi 92 in 357 mag and its a sweet rifle! Very little recoil and it feeds absolutely anything. I bought it used for a tremendous price so I have no idea if it's been worked on. For all I know it could have had a quality action job done.

August 16, 2012, 04:11 AM	#21
lefteyedom Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2010 Location: Wyoming Posts: 332	What do you want to do with the Rifle The Marlin 336 stock seems to manage the recoil energy transfer better than the narrow Winchester 94 stocks A 336 with a good recoil pad and a stock cut to the properly length of pull for you, would be easy on the shoulder. If you are going to hunt deer with this rifle then get Hornady's 30-30 Win 160 gr FTX® LEVERevolution® ( yes I cut and pasted). With this load you have a 300 yard deer rifle Just saying __________________ Superman, you are a mean drunk

August 16, 2012, 05:32 AM	#22
CMGibson Member Join Date: May 8, 2012 Posts: 28	Thanks for the great input guys! Im about ready to put up another question on a new thread.

August 16, 2012, 05:44 AM	#23
CMGibson Member Join Date: May 8, 2012 Posts: 28	Anyone have experience with a slip on recoil pad like Kick Killer? http://www.kick-killer-recoil-pads.com/ Looks pretty cool.

August 16, 2012, 08:24 PM	#24
SRH78 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 437	The only issue is that they effectively change your stock length. I can see using one for sighting in at the bench then removing it to go hunting.

August 16, 2012, 09:08 PM	#25
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 272	If you reload or not a pistol chambered lever gun will be more useful, but also more expensive. A .357 is a pretty sweet general purpose gun but getting hard to find.