Social Security Number & Gun Purchase

BarryLee · July 30, 2012, 04:13 PM

So, I go to purchase a new gun today and when I completed the form I did not include my social security number. As we finish the transaction she tells me they need my social security number for reporting to the city police department. I was a little bothered by it, but went ahead and gave it to her. Afterward I was curious why a small Georgia city would need my number if the Feds don’t.

So, has anyone ever encountered this?

Think the fact that the location was Pawn Shop had anything to do with it? The gun was new, but maybe that is required for this type of business.

Doyle · July 30, 2012, 04:17 PM

It probably has more to do with the fact that you are buying at a pawn shop than anything else. Since pawn shops are known places to trade in stolen property, local laws are probably geared towards stopping that activity.

Creeper · July 30, 2012, 04:31 PM

I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473. Your SS# is optional and you are not required to divulged it.

It's can be used as a form of ID verification. There may be someone with your name, and even your BD, but only you have all three IDs... unless all three were stolen for purposes of fraud. That will red flag.

Unless the LGS refuses, for reasons unknown, next time, just give the last 4 digits on a separate piece of paper... if it really bugs you, give them nothing at all.

I don't understand why the sales person thought it was for the local LEOs... unless it is a local thing that they think they need to know... which is probably illegal for them to do. State by state and county by county variations are somewhat of a mystery to me.

When they call or e-mail the information in, they are contacting the FBI run, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS... not the local PD.

Cheers,
C

Pahoo · July 30, 2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473. It is optional and you are not required to divulged it.

I never divulge it but it really doesn't matter because they always ask me for my driver's license. Regardless of what teh media would have you believe, I have found that FFL dealers know what they are doing. ....

Be Safe !!!

cannonfire · July 30, 2012, 04:40 PM

I'd like to look into that. If you don't mind, what small GA city? Ga is pretty good with gun laws and as you know, no registration is required, maybe it's a city ordinance thing?

Creeper · July 30, 2012, 04:43 PM

It does sound odd... doesn't it Cannonfire?

C

BarryLee · July 30, 2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473.

No, I did not include it on that form and since I have a permit no background check is required. They told me they had to record it for the local police department. She said the information would just be recorded and would not be shared with the police unless they request it.

BarryLee · July 30, 2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

I'd like to look into that. If you don't mind, what small GA city?

Snellville, GA

BarryLee · July 30, 2012, 04:57 PM

Ok, took a moment and looked up the codes and it does indeed appear that a pawn shop is required to collect this information. Sorry, I guess I should have looked this up before my post. But, hey, now you know…

Creeper · July 30, 2012, 04:58 PM

Did you happen to notice, is it for pawn shops only... or any licensed firearms dealer?

C

BarryLee · July 30, 2012, 05:04 PM

The code I reviewed applied only to pawn shops. I just assumed since I bought a new gun it would be handled like any other retail establishment, but I guess that is not the case.

See if this link works. If so look under businesses and then pawn shops.

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13356

**Tom Servo** · July 30, 2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Sec. 22-62. - Daily report to police; required format:

1) Daily reports shall list all property pledged, traded, pawned, exchanged, or sold, the pawn transaction number for each transaction, and a description of the property including, to the extent possible, the manufacturer, model, serial number, style, material, kind, color, design, number of stones if jewelry, and any other identifying names, marks, and numbers. The daily report shall also list the name, address, race, sex, height, weight, driver's license number, date of birth, and Social Security Number of the person pledging, trading, pawning, exchanging, or selling the property, along with the date and time of the transaction.

That's a new one to me. It appears to only apply to pawnbrokers in that city. Remind me not to buy guns from a pawnshop in Snellville.

For a regular gunshop, there is no such reporting requirement.

Aguila Blanca · July 30, 2012, 06:43 PM

I'm old enough to remember when it was illegal for any business to even ask for your social security number. The SSAN was, by law, to be used ONLY for Federal income tax and social security reporting purposes.

Now it has morphed into a near-universal personal identifier ... and people wonder why there's a proliferation of identity theft. As nearly as I can remember, the military started it, in 1968 when they started using social security numbers rather than service numbers.

hermannr · July 30, 2012, 06:56 PM

I don't remember when it started in the military, but I do know in 1966 that you were issued a unique number that started with a...RA ment Regular (volunteer) Army, US meant you were a draftee, probably had other prefixes for other services. And yes, by the time I left service 8 years later it was all SSN

cannonfire · July 31, 2012, 08:09 AM

BarryLee,

Thanks for the update. I wonder if has to do with the potential of stolen guns being pawned. But in that case you could potentially sell it to a FFL any way. Interesting. For once I can possibly see the reasoning behind this (if I was correct in assuming it is for stolen guns)

Doyle · July 31, 2012, 08:13 AM

Like I said - pawn shops are magnets for all kinds of stolen property. I'm betting they require a SSN for all transactions - not just guns.

Bailey Boat · July 31, 2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

The daily report shall also list the name, address, race, sex, height, weight, driver's license number, date of birth, and Social Security Number of the person pledging, trading, pawning, exchanging, or selling the property, along with the date and time of the transaction.

I'm reading this to require the SS number if you SELL something to the pawn shop, not if you're buying.

Willie Sutton · July 31, 2012, 11:14 AM

^^^^^ What he said.

Doesn't anyone actually read the statutes with a critical eye?

The fact that the word "buyer" is not included jumped out immediately.

The police care who's *selling* possibly stolen items. The pawn shop ought to be shown the statute and corrected.

Willie

johnbt · July 31, 2012, 02:23 PM

"you are not required to divulge it."

Divulge it? The government gave it to me, they already know it.

psyfly · July 31, 2012, 04:10 PM

^^^ Yah, but the Pawn shop didn't know it....

BigPoppa · July 31, 2012, 04:16 PM

My FFL is a pawn shop and the last handgun I purchased I did not put my SSN on the transfer form and it was not a problem.

ricotorpe · August 1, 2012, 02:53 AM

If they are demanding SS# from purchasers, this makes me wonder if the pawn shop may have a side business in the identity-theft sector.

FloridaVeteran · August 1, 2012, 05:33 AM

It is insidious. When I went to renew my Florida Drivers License, which I've had since 1962, the lady would not do so without my SSN. When I told her, "You know, M'aam, that this means my license is just a backdoor national identity card," she just gave me a blank stare. No SSN, no license. Your papers, please.

CowTowner · August 1, 2012, 07:46 AM

Same thing here in Texas, FloridaVeteran.

Willie Sutton · August 1, 2012, 12:02 PM

Funny, I am often confused with Richard Nixon....

SSN: 567-68-0515

Use it with a smile when confronted with folks who don't need to know yours
(but not when it's illegal to so so... just when it's humorous to do so)

Willie

.

July 30, 2012, 04:13 PM	#1
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 2,108	Social Security Number & Gun Purchase So, I go to purchase a new gun today and when I completed the form I did not include my social security number. As we finish the transaction she tells me they need my social security number for reporting to the city police department. I was a little bothered by it, but went ahead and gave it to her. Afterward I was curious why a small Georgia city would need my number if the Feds don’t. So, has anyone ever encountered this? Think the fact that the location was Pawn Shop had anything to do with it? The gun was new, but maybe that is required for this type of business. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

July 30, 2012, 04:31 PM	#3
Creeper Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Woooooshington Posts: 1,794	I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473. Your SS# is optional and you are not required to divulged it. It's can be used as a form of ID verification. There may be someone with your name, and even your BD, but only you have all three IDs... unless all three were stolen for purposes of fraud. That will red flag. Unless the LGS refuses, for reasons unknown, next time, just give the last 4 digits on a separate piece of paper... if it really bugs you, give them nothing at all. I don't understand why the sales person thought it was for the local LEOs... unless it is a local thing that they think they need to know... which is probably illegal for them to do. State by state and county by county variations are somewhat of a mystery to me. When they call or e-mail the information in, they are contacting the FBI run, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS... not the local PD. Cheers, C __________________ Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club

July 30, 2012, 04:40 PM	#5
cannonfire Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 473	I'd like to look into that. If you don't mind, what small GA city? Ga is pretty good with gun laws and as you know, no registration is required, maybe it's a city ordinance thing? __________________ Segui il tuo corso e lascia dir le genti - Dante Blaming guns for crime is like blaming the planes for 9/11

July 30, 2012, 04:43 PM	#6
Creeper Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Woooooshington Posts: 1,794	It does sound odd... doesn't it Cannonfire? C __________________ Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club

July 30, 2012, 04:57 PM	#9
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 2,108	Ok, took a moment and looked up the codes and it does indeed appear that a pawn shop is required to collect this information. Sorry, I guess I should have looked this up before my post. But, hey, now you know… __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

July 30, 2012, 04:17 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Bradenton, Fl Posts: 4,131	It probably has more to do with the fact that you are buying at a pawn shop than anything else. Since pawn shops are known places to trade in stolen property, local laws are probably geared towards stopping that activity.

July 30, 2012, 04:58 PM	#10
Creeper Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Woooooshington Posts: 1,794	Did you happen to notice, is it for pawn shops only... or any licensed firearms dealer? C __________________ Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club

July 30, 2012, 05:04 PM	#11
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 2,108	The code I reviewed applied only to pawn shops. I just assumed since I bought a new gun it would be handled like any other retail establishment, but I guess that is not the case. See if this link works. If so look under businesses and then pawn shops. http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13356 __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

July 30, 2012, 06:43 PM	#13
Aguila Blanca Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 4,838	I'm old enough to remember when it was illegal for any business to even ask for your social security number. The SSAN was, by law, to be used ONLY for Federal income tax and social security reporting purposes. Now it has morphed into a near-universal personal identifier ... and people wonder why there's a proliferation of identity theft. As nearly as I can remember, the military started it, in 1968 when they started using social security numbers rather than service numbers.

July 30, 2012, 06:56 PM	#14
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 691	I don't remember when it started in the military, but I do know in 1966 that you were issued a unique number that started with a...RA ment Regular (volunteer) Army, US meant you were a draftee, probably had other prefixes for other services. And yes, by the time I left service 8 years later it was all SSN

July 31, 2012, 08:09 AM	#15
cannonfire Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 473	BarryLee, Thanks for the update. I wonder if has to do with the potential of stolen guns being pawned. But in that case you could potentially sell it to a FFL any way. Interesting. For once I can possibly see the reasoning behind this (if I was correct in assuming it is for stolen guns) __________________ Segui il tuo corso e lascia dir le genti - Dante Blaming guns for crime is like blaming the planes for 9/11

July 31, 2012, 08:13 AM	#16
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Bradenton, Fl Posts: 4,131	Like I said - pawn shops are magnets for all kinds of stolen property. I'm betting they require a SSN for all transactions - not just guns.

July 31, 2012, 11:14 AM	#18
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^^^^ What he said. Doesn't anyone actually read the statutes with a critical eye? The fact that the word "buyer" is not included jumped out immediately. The police care who's selling possibly stolen items. The pawn shop ought to be shown the statute and corrected. Willie

July 31, 2012, 02:23 PM	#19
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,005	"you are not required to divulge it." Divulge it? The government gave it to me, they already know it.

July 31, 2012, 04:10 PM	#20
psyfly Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 602	^^^ Yah, but the Pawn shop didn't know it.... __________________ Show me the data

July 31, 2012, 04:16 PM	#21
BigPoppa Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2008 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 135	My FFL is a pawn shop and the last handgun I purchased I did not put my SSN on the transfer form and it was not a problem.

August 1, 2012, 02:53 AM	#22
ricotorpe Junior Member Join Date: July 31, 2012 Posts: 7	If they are demanding SS# from purchasers, this makes me wonder if the pawn shop may have a side business in the identity-theft sector.

August 1, 2012, 05:33 AM	#23
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	It is insidious. When I went to renew my Florida Drivers License, which I've had since 1962, the lady would not do so without my SSN. When I told her, "You know, M'aam, that this means my license is just a backdoor national identity card," she just gave me a blank stare. No SSN, no license. Your papers, please.

August 1, 2012, 07:46 AM	#24
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 979	Same thing here in Texas, FloridaVeteran. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Basic Pistol Instructor "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

August 1, 2012, 12:02 PM	#25
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Funny, I am often confused with Richard Nixon.... SSN: 567-68-0515 Use it with a smile when confronted with folks who don't need to know yours (but not when it's illegal to so so... just when it's humorous to do so) Willie .