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Old July 30, 2012, 03:13 PM   #1
BarryLee
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Social Security Number & Gun Purchase

So, I go to purchase a new gun today and when I completed the form I did not include my social security number. As we finish the transaction she tells me they need my social security number for reporting to the city police department. I was a little bothered by it, but went ahead and gave it to her. Afterward I was curious why a small Georgia city would need my number if the Feds don’t.

So, has anyone ever encountered this?

Think the fact that the location was Pawn Shop had anything to do with it? The gun was new, but maybe that is required for this type of business.
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:17 PM   #2
Doyle
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It probably has more to do with the fact that you are buying at a pawn shop than anything else. Since pawn shops are known places to trade in stolen property, local laws are probably geared towards stopping that activity.
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:31 PM   #3
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I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473. Your SS# is optional and you are not required to divulged it.

It's can be used as a form of ID verification. There may be someone with your name, and even your BD, but only you have all three IDs... unless all three were stolen for purposes of fraud. That will red flag.

Unless the LGS refuses, for reasons unknown, next time, just give the last 4 digits on a separate piece of paper... if it really bugs you, give them nothing at all.

I don't understand why the sales person thought it was for the local LEOs... unless it is a local thing that they think they need to know... which is probably illegal for them to do. State by state and county by county variations are somewhat of a mystery to me.

When they call or e-mail the information in, they are contacting the FBI run, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS... not the local PD.

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Old July 30, 2012, 03:39 PM   #4
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Good question !!!

Quote:
I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473. It is optional and you are not required to divulged it.
I never divulge it but it really doesn't matter because they always ask me for my driver's license. Regardless of what teh media would have you believe, I have found that FFL dealers know what they are doing. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:40 PM   #5
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I'd like to look into that. If you don't mind, what small GA city? Ga is pretty good with gun laws and as you know, no registration is required, maybe it's a city ordinance thing?
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:43 PM   #6
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It does sound odd... doesn't it Cannonfire?

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Old July 30, 2012, 03:47 PM   #7
BarryLee
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Quote:
I assume you are referring to Federal form 4473.
No, I did not include it on that form and since I have a permit no background check is required. They told me they had to record it for the local police department. She said the information would just be recorded and would not be shared with the police unless they request it.
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
I'd like to look into that. If you don't mind, what small GA city?
Snellville, GA
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:57 PM   #9
BarryLee
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Ok, took a moment and looked up the codes and it does indeed appear that a pawn shop is required to collect this information. Sorry, I guess I should have looked this up before my post. But, hey, now you know…
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Old July 30, 2012, 03:58 PM   #10
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Did you happen to notice, is it for pawn shops only... or any licensed firearms dealer?

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Old July 30, 2012, 04:04 PM   #11
BarryLee
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The code I reviewed applied only to pawn shops. I just assumed since I bought a new gun it would be handled like any other retail establishment, but I guess that is not the case.

See if this link works. If so look under businesses and then pawn shops.

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13356
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Old July 30, 2012, 05:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Sec. 22-62. - Daily report to police; required format:

1) Daily reports shall list all property pledged, traded, pawned, exchanged, or sold, the pawn transaction number for each transaction, and a description of the property including, to the extent possible, the manufacturer, model, serial number, style, material, kind, color, design, number of stones if jewelry, and any other identifying names, marks, and numbers. The daily report shall also list the name, address, race, sex, height, weight, driver's license number, date of birth, and Social Security Number of the person pledging, trading, pawning, exchanging, or selling the property, along with the date and time of the transaction.
That's a new one to me. It appears to only apply to pawnbrokers in that city. Remind me not to buy guns from a pawnshop in Snellville.

For a regular gunshop, there is no such reporting requirement.
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Old July 30, 2012, 05:43 PM   #13
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I'm old enough to remember when it was illegal for any business to even ask for your social security number. The SSAN was, by law, to be used ONLY for Federal income tax and social security reporting purposes.

Now it has morphed into a near-universal personal identifier ... and people wonder why there's a proliferation of identity theft. As nearly as I can remember, the military started it, in 1968 when they started using social security numbers rather than service numbers.
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Old July 30, 2012, 05:56 PM   #14
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I don't remember when it started in the military, but I do know in 1966 that you were issued a unique number that started with a...RA ment Regular (volunteer) Army, US meant you were a draftee, probably had other prefixes for other services. And yes, by the time I left service 8 years later it was all SSN
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Old July 31, 2012, 07:09 AM   #15
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BarryLee,

Thanks for the update. I wonder if has to do with the potential of stolen guns being pawned. But in that case you could potentially sell it to a FFL any way. Interesting. For once I can possibly see the reasoning behind this (if I was correct in assuming it is for stolen guns)
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Old July 31, 2012, 07:13 AM   #16
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Like I said - pawn shops are magnets for all kinds of stolen property. I'm betting they require a SSN for all transactions - not just guns.
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Old July 31, 2012, 09:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
The daily report shall also list the name, address, race, sex, height, weight, driver's license number, date of birth, and Social Security Number of the person pledging, trading, pawning, exchanging, or selling the property, along with the date and time of the transaction.
I'm reading this to require the SS number if you SELL something to the pawn shop, not if you're buying.
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Old July 31, 2012, 10:14 AM   #18
Willie Sutton
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^^^^^ What he said.

Doesn't anyone actually read the statutes with a critical eye?

The fact that the word "buyer" is not included jumped out immediately.


The police care who's *selling* possibly stolen items. The pawn shop ought to be shown the statute and corrected.



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Old July 31, 2012, 01:23 PM   #19
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"you are not required to divulge it."

Divulge it? The government gave it to me, they already know it.
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Old July 31, 2012, 03:10 PM   #20
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^^^ Yah, but the Pawn shop didn't know it....
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Old July 31, 2012, 03:16 PM   #21
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My FFL is a pawn shop and the last handgun I purchased I did not put my SSN on the transfer form and it was not a problem.
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Old August 1, 2012, 01:53 AM   #22
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If they are demanding SS# from purchasers, this makes me wonder if the pawn shop may have a side business in the identity-theft sector.
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Old August 1, 2012, 04:33 AM   #23
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It is insidious. When I went to renew my Florida Drivers License, which I've had since 1962, the lady would not do so without my SSN. When I told her, "You know, M'aam, that this means my license is just a backdoor national identity card," she just gave me a blank stare. No SSN, no license. Your papers, please.
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Old August 1, 2012, 06:46 AM   #24
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Same thing here in Texas, FloridaVeteran.
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:02 AM   #25
Willie Sutton
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Funny, I am often confused with Richard Nixon....

SSN: 567-68-0515




Use it with a smile when confronted with folks who don't need to know yours
(but not when it's illegal to so so... just when it's humorous to do so)





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