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Old August 12, 2013, 05:21 PM   #1
davem
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Colt Single Action Army Clone help

I have a percussion Colt navy 51 and a SSA Colt with a 4 3/4" barrel but I'm thinking about a SSA Colt with a 7 1/2" barrel. On the new gun, a while back someone was selling a "cattleman" in 44/40 with a spare cylinder in 44 mag. Are any such deals still around and what brands would you recommend? Thanks.
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Old August 12, 2013, 05:36 PM   #2
Doc Hoy
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I have two Uberti's with 7.5 inch barrels

One is a .357 which was made two years ago and the other is a .44 Magnum that was made 40 years ago. In terms of quality, there is not a nickel's worth of difference between the two revolvers.

I have no complaints about these revolvers.

I have a Vaquero which is superior in quality.

I don't know that I would want one pistol with two different cylinders, but then I am a little strange. IMO two pistols of different calibers is better than one pistol with two cylinders.
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Old August 12, 2013, 06:19 PM   #3
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I have an older Uberti/Cimarron 44-40/.44 special convertible but I no longer have the special cylinder. Great guns and more realistic than the Ruger.
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Old August 13, 2013, 02:56 AM   #4
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Hawg is dead right...

The Vaquero is a good distance from a Peacemaker.
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Old August 13, 2013, 08:29 AM   #5
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Here is another point....

The Uberti Revolvers can be purchased with or without the safety wedge on the hammer.

I own four from Uberti. Three are "Cattleman" with the safety wedge. The remaining revolver is a "Smokewagon" which does not have the safety wedge.
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Old August 13, 2013, 08:38 AM   #6
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Look for a used USFA Rodeo or SAA. They are getting pricey because they are no longer made. I am glad I bought my USFA several years ago.

If you can't find a USFA at a decent price just save for a Colt.
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Old August 13, 2013, 03:19 PM   #7
davem
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I got to admit that I don't like a transfer bar- I want a firing pin in the hammer just like the original. On the two cylinders. I can see the logic behind not liking that because even though manufactured I think there are small differences and the timing, etc might be slightly different. I think if they index okay and the forcing cone is ok, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. What was in my mind was to use the 44/40 almost all the time but then if I want to go hog hunting, etc- put in the 44 magnum cylinder. Here's another thought, if the frame is strong enough for a 44 magnum, and the diameter of the 44/40 cylinder = the 44 magnum cylinder, then I might be able to just use the 44/40 cylinder but load it "Hot". If you cut a modern 44/40 case and a 44 magnum case- they may be about equal in strength- I don't know- but the 44/40 could have the bullet set out farther so OAL is equal to a 44 magnum and then choose a very mild 44 magnum load that would not be full power but more than enough for most hogs.
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Old August 13, 2013, 04:19 PM   #8
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When it comes to .44 Magnum in an SAA frame, I would have more concerns than a transfer bar.

Jim
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Old August 13, 2013, 07:28 PM   #9
Hawg
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I can't remember seeing a 44 mag in a Uberti clone. .357 yes. At any rate if the gun will handle it you can load a 44-40 to 44 mag pressures but the thin necked cases won't last very long.
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Old August 14, 2013, 05:06 AM   #10
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I just received...

(about a month ago)

I .44 Magnum Uberti Cattleman with a 7.5 inch barrel made in 1974. (Firing pin and safety wedge)

I finished loading a hundred rounds with 25 grains (by weight) of 777. Haven't shot any yet. That much powder in .45 LC gives me a lot of recoil.

I bought some .44 Magnum smokeless rounds for comparison (and because at Georgia Arms they are only about two times the cost of once fired brass.)

I'll take the Chronograph along next time I go out and report back on the performance.
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Old August 14, 2013, 04:51 PM   #11
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Well then, let's look at it from another point. Back when baloon cases were made you didn't have the solid web at the base and couldn't hot load them but even with the baloon case you still got a 44/40 performance. The revolvers didn't have much heat treatment as well. Now a days the 44/40 cases are like any other with a solid web and the cylinders receive some sort of heat treatment. If you buy 44/40 cases they have to be made to use in any 44/40 so they are loaded to traditional levels but with the new case and heat treated steel frame and cylinder you opught to be able to increase the performance on a 44/40- the question is...by how much and still be safe?
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Old August 14, 2013, 07:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
If you buy 44/40 cases they have to be made to use in any 44/40 so they are loaded to traditional levels but with the new case and heat treated steel frame and cylinder you opught to be able to increase the performance on a 44/40- the question is...by how much and still be safe?
The case necks are still very thin and will not hold up to very many heavy charges.

Quote:
I finished loading a hundred rounds with 25 grains (by weight) of 777. Haven't shot any yet. That much powder in .45 LC gives me a lot of recoil.
You like living dangerously huh Doc.
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Old August 15, 2013, 12:18 AM   #13
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Hawg....

Not fond of danger....

But I do love when my right hand hurts for three days after shooting full loads.


;o)
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Old August 15, 2013, 02:20 PM   #14
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Well on the danger thing- I have been accused of that A LOT which is too bad because I don't think I'm really a loose cannon- "I just want to know". For example I had a S & W 38 special with a heavy barrel- K Frame that was IDENTICAL to a K frame 357 magnum. I could load the 38 spl to 357 magnum levels by seating a bullet farther out to create the same OAL- Phil Sharpe in his reloading book (Sharpe developed the 357 magnum) has that formula.
Well I got to wondering if S & W actually gave different heat treatments to a K frame 38 spl and a K frame 357 magnum. A lot of bother it would seem- I figured they probably gave them the same treatment and the frames were identical- the only different the stamping on the barrel. Well I called the plant. ALL I WANTED WAS AN ANSWER. Let's say the guy in the shop said, NOPE, different steel and heat treatment, you can't load a 38 spl K Frame to 357 mag pressures- that's all I wanted to know but everyone there in Springfield was having a nervous breakdown- I never did get a straight answer. That's sort of where I am on the 44/40. It sure seems that if the traditional 44/40 worked in an old frame.cylinder and baloon head case then with the modern stuff you can SAFELY up it a bit but I can't get any data.
There was a guy called Matthews that wrote a book on the 45/70 and what loads could safely be used in a Marlin but no old gun- good info. I was looking for something like that on the 44/40. Once again- no "hot" stuff, just a tried and proven safe load for a modern type gun.
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Old August 15, 2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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Me personally I wouldn't attempt to hot load a modern 44-40 Colt clone. Now a Winchester 92 or a 92 clone with its double locking lugs you can load pretty much as hot as you want.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:03 AM   #16
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Guys....

Keep in mind that when I said 25 grains, I meant 25 grains of black powder which is all I load.
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Old August 16, 2013, 08:42 PM   #17
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I bought an Uberti "Cattleman" .44 Magnum when they were inported by Iver Johnson, back around 1975. The frame of these guns were comparable to the Ruger Super Blackhawk in size, in fact, just out of curiosity I swapped cylinders and they did fit and function in crossed frames. (This was a night time "wonder if" type of thing and they were promptly restored to their proper frames without trying to fire them.) The Cattleman I had had fixed sights and brass trigger guard and backstrap. There was a little "dimple" in the butt for attaching a shoulder stock.

As to quality, I recently bought a Uberti .44 Special imported by Cimarron which is supposed to be made to Cimarron's specs and it does have a much better case coloring and trigger pull than other Uberti models I've seen. It's been hinted the case coloring is done by Doug Turnbull, but I've not seen that documented.

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Old August 17, 2013, 05:33 AM   #18
Doc Hoy
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If you check out the Gunbroker.Com right now

You will find a Mitchell Arms .44 Magnum which looks like a dead ringer for the .44 I just bought (Mine is Iver Johnson as well.) 7.5 inch barrel. Real smooth. The roll engraving on the barrel says Uberti.

The revolver is described as having a cylinder with potentially oversize chamber.

I think they are opening it up at 200.00 and I think there are no bids on it yet.
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