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Old July 24, 2012, 03:41 PM   #1
Amsdorf
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Need Support - Anti-Gun Blog Post in Action

Guys, I'm calling in some support on a liberal blog site bashing gun rights:

http://www.religionnews.com/culture/...eligious-issue

Would appreciate it if you would hit it and add a supportive comment or two.
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Old July 24, 2012, 04:02 PM   #2
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Done, and done.
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Old July 24, 2012, 04:51 PM   #3
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*Posted the following*

I think there are very few public policy issues that actually need to be framed as a question of theology for Christians.

Gun control would be one of the last.

However, only a tiny percentage of gun owners ever use a gun to commit a crime, and for many of those gun-using criminals, it was already against the law for them to possess a firearm. Pushing regulation against a THING as opposed to an ACTION (taken by a human) seems to go against core Christian beliefs in personal responsibility and salvation - people sin, but objects are incapable of acting on their own, much less sinning.

I don’t think it’s possible to make a logical jump from the fact that some people use guns to commit murder to the conclusion that allowing people to have guns is a sin, any more than it’s possible to conclude that because some people overeat fast food to the point of gluttony justifies banning or restricting all fast food for everyone.

I think that freedom of choice is the central tenet of Christian philosophy. Ultimately, everyone has a choice to either accept God or deny Him. To follow or to rebel. God wants willing servants and children, not slaves. This, I think, is the only explanation for why evil is allowed to exist: because God values the freedom of humans to choose more highly than He would value a peaceful world full of drones.

Last edited by Tom Servo; July 24, 2012 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Removed abortion-related content
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Old July 24, 2012, 05:14 PM   #4
Amsdorf
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Excellent comment guys, it will be interesting to read the responses. In my experience the response you get will be emotional and probably start to resort to name calling.
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:07 PM   #5
mehavey
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Quote from the article:
Code:
Dollar said she “gently” raised the issue of gun control in the piece but
the editors spiked it because “they felt they ‘cannot win’ on the gun-control
issue with their evangelical readership.”
Fascinating.

Apparently the "strict constructionists" remember that Peter ('The Rock' upon whom Christ
built his Church) was a sword-carrying CCW'r at the Garden of Gethsemane incident .

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the
high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear.

(John 18:10)
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:20 PM   #6
hermannr
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Being of the same religious persuasion as Amsdorf, I OC'd to church Sunday, as normal for me....no-one said a thing...my goodness, some of the women wore a hat.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:00 PM   #7
Botswana
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I'm not about to comment on an ideologically unhinged website. That is not a reasoned discussion of Christianity and how it relates to gun control. It clearly ignored many passages in the text around weapons and completely ignores Jesus' own advice about selling your clothes to procure weapons when the time comes.

I hate that out-of-context justification of beliefs holier than thou claptrap. People like that are exactly why Christians have such a bad name.

I'm not bashing Christians here. I go to church and I'm a filthy sinner. Ergo, I go to church.

Murder would be murder without guns and murder has been happening as long as sibling rivalry. Anyone want to paraphrase me over there feel free but I'm not personally going to cross post on what is bordering on lunatic fringe.

The irony that this site is probably viewed as ideologically unhinged by gun control advocates does not escape me in the least.
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Old July 25, 2012, 04:35 AM   #8
steidle2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botswana View Post
I'm not about to comment on an ideologically unhinged website. That is not a reasoned discussion of Christianity and how it relates to gun control. It clearly ignored many passages in the text around weapons and completely ignores Jesus' own advice about selling your clothes to procure weapons when the time comes.

I hate that out-of-context justification of beliefs holier than thou claptrap. People like that are exactly why Christians have such a bad name.

I'm not bashing Christians here. I go to church and I'm a filthy sinner. Ergo, I go to church.

Murder would be murder without guns and murder has been happening as long as sibling rivalry. Anyone want to paraphrase me over there feel free but I'm not personally going to cross post on what is bordering on lunatic fringe.

The irony that this site is probably viewed as ideologically unhinged by gun control advocates does not escape me in the least.
+1

I don't think the anti-gun crowd is open minded enough to have a legitimate discussion. I do believe that as responsible gun owning citizens it is our responsibility to make sure that these groups are not distorting the facts and negetively influencing the general public. I just don't think their website is an effective place to do that
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Old July 25, 2012, 06:28 AM   #9
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Actually, hiding in the bunker is not a good option.

A well expressed opinion, calmly and without rancor, goes a long way toward persuasion.

And, the comments on the blog now do a very good job of doing this.

Thanks to those who have visited and posted a comment.
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Old July 25, 2012, 06:40 AM   #10
Baba Louie
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While I won't go to the blog and post, I wonder if anyone posting there remembers or has/have heard of Jeanne Assam and the Colorado Springs church incident? (has it been 5 years already?)

Probably not. Nor would it change a mind that is already closed.

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/u...sings?_s=PM:US

Emotions are high now, for good reason. The Good Lord helps those who help themselves (or so I heard) and/or who are fortunate enough to have armed guards, like Ms Assam, nearby to protect those too weak or perhaps too timid to defend their lives.

In my limited time on the planet, I have found that there is no One Answer to fit all problems, but some things, such as my life or my families lives, are worth defending against my "brother" should he suddenly lose sane thought process and go berserk.

Rational discourse is one thing. Zealots of any kind, I tend to shun.
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Old July 25, 2012, 07:21 AM   #11
mrbentley57
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My mbliss | Jul 25, 2012 | 8:15am

As a Christian I am really set back that Gun Control comes up as a problem we as Christians are causing or thwarting.
Gun Control is a 2nd amendment right and a political / constitutional issue. It has nothing to do with Christ.
My belief in my right to keep and bear arms comes straight from the framers of the Constitution and I believe that it isn’t just an individual right but also a right that was meant to keep in check evil and tyranny in the upper reaches of government. The framer’s reasons are not outdated.
This assault rifle thing is a smoke screen to continue down the path of taking away guns from the common people. (The shooter in Colorado allegedly used a shotgun, more than one handgun, an ar15 style rifle, incendiary bombs and a booby trapped house) So why is this an issue about assault weapons at all? I also believe that the bible teaches that evil exists and cannot be controlled by laws. But I really see that the world works this way.. it’s not something I just read a blindly follow. It’s a spiritual issue not a legislative one. I agree with the above post that is guns are removed from the hands of Americans the destruction from violent acts will increase in intensity of destruction due to the ignition source. Namely Molotov cocktails, homemade bombs, black market bombs, dirty bombs and finally the illegal weapons that evil people will procure anyway. You can not legislate evil away.
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Old July 25, 2012, 08:40 AM   #12
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Par for the course on both sides. When you can't produce facts you use a fairy tale to do your fighting for ya.
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Old July 25, 2012, 11:29 AM   #13
Amsdorf
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The point in contributing a well thought out and well written, concise, comment to a blog post on the Religion News Service blog is not to change the minds of the people who run the site or the author who contributed to it, but....to present alternative points of view to the many people who are reading the blog post.

Again, adopting a bunker mentality and sticking your head in the sand when an opportunity like this arises is not helpful, at all.

I continue to appreciate the people contributing comments, RNS raised the blog post against today in its daily update stating, "Still generating a lot of discussion."

: )
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Old July 25, 2012, 11:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Being of the same religious persuasion as Amsdorf, I OC'd to church Sunday
I'm of the same persuasion, and I'm grimly aware that the ELCA supports gun control to the hilt.

Quote:
I don't think the anti-gun crowd is open minded enough to have a legitimate discussion
I hear that a great deal, and there are two issues with the point.

The first is that there are just as many close-minded zealots on our side of the fence. I've run across innumerable gun people who are excellent at chanting memorized talking points, but who fall apart rhetorically when presented with an argument for which they're unprepared.

The second is that these things come in varying shades of gray. Not everyone who questions gun ownership is an anti. It is a normal reaction for many folks otherwise uninvolved to think, "hey, if we just banned the darned things, wouldn't it stem the violence?" That doesn't mean they're out to destroy the 2nd Amendment, it just means they haven't been convinced.

We dismiss those people at our own peril.
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Old July 25, 2012, 12:07 PM   #15
Botswana
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I'm not going to advocate "hiding in a bunker" either, but engaging zealots on their home ground is a losing battle, everytime.

You reach maybe a handful of people who bother to read the comments and even then you risk being swamped by those willing to participate in the echo chamber.

I'm willing to engage in reasonable discussion but still abide by the old rule - "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
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Old July 25, 2012, 09:13 PM   #16
Amsdorf
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Well, Botswana, all I can tell you is that on the site I asked people to comment on the greater majority of the comments have made excellent point and are overwhelming the "anti" crowd.
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Old July 25, 2012, 09:42 PM   #17
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Murder has been around since the beginning of time... Cain murdered Abel, and he didn't have any guns at all... Yet he managed to wipe out 25% of the world's population at the time...
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Old July 26, 2012, 07:12 PM   #18
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What if this guy was wearing a vest of pipe bombs he had made at home the conversation would be totally different. The anti gun people are seizing on one of the last straws they have for a while. They have been left behind in America. People are buying more firearms than ever. I bet Obama and the antis will not find a friend in Senator Reid. He will just agree and let it go in one ear and out the other just to be nice.

Some folks think you can legislate danger out of existence. The only catch is how many of your rights are you willing to give up to help them pass a law that will absolutely make no difference in the next big attack if guns were outlawed.

If you want freedom there is risk. We hear the phrase Freedom isn't Free and associate it with the military. It is also true for the rest of the nation freedom doesn't come with out a price. That price is sometimes a madman or group killing a lot of people. The Founding Fathers were aware of this yet it comes as a surprise to those who want us to give up our rights in return for safety.
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