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Old July 30, 2012, 02:22 PM   #76
Brian Pfleuger
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No one called you any names.

I typically pay no never mind to one oridinary persons opinion against mine but when a particular practice is universally decried by virtually everyone who comments on it, I might rethink the wisdom of that practice.

Your practice has no benefits and it's incredibly damaging to your ears. It's your business, your ears, you can do what you want, but you might take some time to seriously consider your practice.
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Old July 30, 2012, 02:30 PM   #77
John Cockburn
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What cha say ???

When I was in my twenties, shot a few times without ear plugs. Had that ringing sensation for a day or so. But it cleared up. Also did skeet in my teens. Later in life found myself on a pre-OSHA enforced LOUD production floor to make a living. No real problems there either. Got active with pistols again 10 years ago. ALWAYS wore protection. Went to a friend's farm. Had the ear muffs on (but above the ears...forgot to pull 'em down). Let off ONE SHOT with a .22 pistol. Ruptured the ear drum and suffered mild permanent loss in that ear. Now if I put my finger in that ear and move it as if to relieve an itch, I can hear "jingle bells". Doc says this will be with me for life! I'm 61 and still don't need hearing aides but can't enjoy the stereo like I used to. Motto: ALWAYS USE PROTECTION !!!
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Old July 30, 2012, 02:36 PM   #78
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HEARING

Hey, I almost forgot. I read recently in a "Gunner Magazine" somewhere that the author RECOMMENDED that every one should fire a pistol once in a cement stairway...just to know what to expect in a "real incident". He's CRAZY !! Do it and you won't need to carry a gun because you'll never hear your assailant coming!!!
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Old July 30, 2012, 08:06 PM   #79
insomni
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I had the same eardrum rupturing expectations at first. I've had a couple ear-pro mishaps.

The hearing loss isn't as horrific as you'd think, though it IS notable. Even with .50 thundering in a helmet and a 5.56mm and it's loud as all hell crack in an enclosed place, I still didn't have any effects that lasted longer than 24hrs. (caveat to that is that to this day, I also make extra sure my ear pro is snug and secure)

Having lived to tell the tale, and hear another day, I'd second this "Gunner Mag" opinion that everyone should fire a gun sans earpro at some point, just so when Murphy jumps up and smacks your earpro out of your head, you know it isn't going to be the worst thing that's ever happened to you. You can continue the fight instead of worrying about the small things like trying to protect your hearing instead of your life.
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Old July 30, 2012, 08:08 PM   #80
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I never shoot without ear protection (thankfully), but yesterday i was standing next to my friend shooting his SKS and I didn't have my earplugs on. I can say that it is not very pleasant....
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Old July 30, 2012, 10:45 PM   #81
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"Loud" apparently increased by KDF

I called my buddy to confirm what he was shooting when he permanently damaged his hearing so badly during a hunt. It was a Weatherby .300 Magnum with a KDF recoil reducer on it. I think I have read elsewhere, perhaps in this forum, that recoil reducers amp up the noise. He likes the KDF because he says it makes the recoil feel like a .270. It sure is a shame that neither of the two paid guides, both of whom apparently had plugged their own ears, looked to see if he had his in so they could have motioned to him. It was a 430 yard shot, so it's not like he would scare off the animal, but it had turned broadside at the other side of the canyon and my excited buddy didn't want to miss the shot.

Last edited by FloridaVeteran; July 30, 2012 at 10:46 PM. Reason: modify title
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Old July 30, 2012, 11:13 PM   #82
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Quote:
...I'd second this "Gunner Mag" opinion that everyone should fire a gun sans earpro at some point, just so when Murphy jumps up and smacks your earpro out of your head, you know it isn't going to be the worst thing that's ever happened to you. You can continue the fight instead of worrying about the small things like trying to protect your hearing instead of your life.
First of all, in all the shooting encounters I have read or heard about, I have NEVER read or heard one of the combatants mention that he or she was concerned about hearing loss during the actual event. I seriously doubt that anyone being shot at would actually be worried about hearing loss when their life is at stake.

Second, as already pointed out, it's quite common for people to experience auditory exclusion which means that during the gunfight they don't even notice that the gunfire is loud. It also means that they don't need to practice ahead of time to get used to the loud noises they aren't hearing during the gunfight as a result of auditory exclusion.

Third, very few of civilians will ever be involved in a gunfight.

Fourth, I do not believe that anyone, anywhere, actually needs to be convinced that shooting without hearing protection is not the "worst thing" that will ever happen to them.

In other words, it absolutely does not make sense to damage your hearing to eliminate the possibility of a worry that people don't seem to encounter, that logically isn't high on the list of worries under the circumstances, in the name of preventing a problem that many note isn't a problem due to auditory exclusion, all taking place during an event that nearly all of us won't ever be involved in.
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Old July 31, 2012, 09:45 AM   #83
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I guess you have to live with it to realize how bad an idea this is. I was a rifle and pistol coach in the service, they would not allow shooters to qualify if they did not have hearing protection. There always seemed to be someone who forgot their ears, so I would give them mine. I subsequently have hearing damage, tinnitus. As described previously in this thread, constant irreparable ringing and difficulty hearing people speak. It continues to degrade with age. That's what you are in for.

Secondly, I believe there is a high probability that your shooting will also degrade as you anticipate the noise. How that could not cause you to flinch, wince, cringe, jerk, close your eyes.. And anything else that is not conducive to good shooting.

I understand the desire to be prepared, but in this case this preparation is unecessary and damaging to your quality of life.
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Old July 31, 2012, 09:55 AM   #84
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To the OP

Quote:
but what is the alternative?
You could always apply for the tax stamp, suppressor and subsonic ammunition...especially if you're thinking about firing a gun in an indoor environment where sound reverberation is likely.
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Old July 31, 2012, 03:37 PM   #85
old bear
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Ever shot without ear protector?

For years before we knew how dangerous it was. I'm now paying the price in the form of serous hearing loss.

Everyone PLEASE use hearing protection whenever needed.
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Old July 31, 2012, 05:04 PM   #86
FloridaVeteran
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Plan B in your wallet

1stmar - my buddy who got the tinnitus taught me a useful trick. Take a couple of the yellow (smaller and denser than the Home Depot orange ones, is the only I know how to describe them) foam ear plugs, squish them up and keep them in a corner of your wallet. Better than nothing.

I agree with JohnKSa's observation about auditory exclusion. In an "I die now" moment, the brain probably re-routes all sorts of signals, including interpretation of noise relative to visual fight-or-flight cues. How that keeps all those little hairs on the eardrum from getting mowed down is beyond me, but at least noise in that situation should not prevent a reasonably-prepared person from getting into the fight. The recoil disappears, too.
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Old July 31, 2012, 05:25 PM   #87
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How that keeps all those little hairs on the eardrum from getting mowed down is beyond me
It doesn't. Auditory exclusion is a state of mind only. Damage is still done, period.
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Old July 31, 2012, 05:45 PM   #88
dayman
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I have shot my gun without hearing protection - putting down injured animals, surprise pest control, etc - but I'd never plan on shooting without it. Well, I guess I don't wear anything when I'm deer hunting, so if I strike out with my bow I do tend to shoot 1 round of 30-30 without protection every fall - as others have said, I've never noticed the shot taking a deer.

For day to day use Amazon sells electronic earmuffs for like $50.
You can hear voices and background noise, but gunshots are muffled. You can even plug your ipod into them if you're so inclined.
Best $50 you can spend if you're going to shoot IMHO.
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Old July 31, 2012, 10:23 PM   #89
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Quote:
Auditory exclusion is a state of mind only. Damage is still done, period.
Correct. I was responding to the assertion that it was a good idea to practice occasionally without hearing protection to get used to the loud noise so it doesn't surprise you in a gunfight. However, if auditory exclusion kicks in, as it often does, then there's no loud noise in the gunfight to worry about from the standpoint of being suprised.
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Old August 1, 2012, 06:40 AM   #90
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Flavet, we used to use cigarette butts in a pinch . Better then nothing but not by much.
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Old August 1, 2012, 06:53 AM   #91
MikeGunz
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In a firefight you wont notice how loud your weapon is. You'll be more focused on not dying.
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Old August 1, 2012, 08:10 AM   #92
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Quote:
In a firefight you wont notice how loud your weapon is. You'll be more focused on not dying.
I assure you, not everyone experiences auditory exclusion.

Of course, not everyone experiences tunnel vision, sense of time dialation (even if actually just memory perspective), fight or flight-producing amazing amounts of speed or strength.

Some people do get startled by the noise.
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Old August 2, 2012, 12:50 PM   #93
ricotorpe
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When I was 30, I was firing my new .45 at the range. When we were leaving, I still had two rounds from a box of ammo that I wanted to get rid of. I put them in the mag to just deposit them in the berm.

I forgot that I had removed my hearing protection.

BOOOOOM!!!!

It hurt, and my ears were REALLY ringing. (I have had some tinnitus since my 20s from too much loud music.)

The ringing went back to normal in a day or so.
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Old August 2, 2012, 01:44 PM   #94
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A year and a half ago I was in a Gun Fighting Course shooting from inside my vehicle. The first time I drove up and shot out of the drivers window. The next time around the drivers post in front of the windshield. Waiting for my third pass, I removed my Electronic Earphones to rest the ears and let them dry out while the others in the class did their passes. Drove up, lowered the passenger window, Range master said "Fight" I drew and got off 4 Very Loud rounds inside the car. Didn't flinch but they rang for 20 minutes. Bob the target did go down with 4 center mass hits at 10 yards. If I am ever in a Gunfight out in public, I won't have hearing protection or eye protection. I do not need a second round of training on this process.
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Old August 2, 2012, 09:56 PM   #95
JohnKSa
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Bob the target did go down with 4 center mass hits at 10 yards. ... I do not need a second round of training on this process.
Sounds like you did very well your first time without it even though you had no practice at all in shooting without hearing protection.
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Old August 3, 2012, 02:19 PM   #96
Glenn E. Meyer
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Hair cells - not hairs. Not on the eardrum.

In the cochlea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_cell

Also look at google images to see how fragile they are.

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/about-us/the-issues/
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Old August 3, 2012, 02:42 PM   #97
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Yes...My SIG P226 -___- shot the whole mag..Wasn't a pleasant experience whatsoever.
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Old August 3, 2012, 06:29 PM   #98
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Growing up, my dad and I shot a lot - without ear protection. Never do now. All range trips are with ear protection.

Tinitus is no joke. I've had that "eeeeeeeeee" in my left ear for a couple decades and agree, it is no fun at all and if it can be avoided - do so.

Not going to worry about it in a self defense situation, but otherwise, be careful. Once the damage is done, it can't be fixed. No do over, no reset, just Game Over for your ear(s).
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Old August 4, 2012, 07:08 PM   #99
GaryOlson
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Once. After a discussion about targets at the range, fired the .308 without ear protection. The sharp ringing echo from the sheet metal roof was unexpected; and educational.
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Old August 4, 2012, 07:39 PM   #100
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This took away all of my highs on July 23, 1980
http://www.black-sabbath.com/tourdates/1980tour/

Some shooting of shotguns when young didn't help either. Still have decent hearing but a little nerve deafness (cannot separate dialog when there is a lot of background noise). Now I wear ear plugs and then electronic ear muffs over them.

Wish I could team with CalOSHA to sue the California DOJ for their ban on suppressors, you guys in free states have it made.
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