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Old July 24, 2012, 10:31 AM   #1
Elliottsdad
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Semi-auto rifle that fits these criteria:

I posted a few days ago in the bolt/lever/etc. forum about a rifle that fits a certain criteria, but just got the okay from the wife to spend a bit more, so naturally, my criteria have changed. What semi-auto rifle?:

1. Is (first and foremost) utterly reliable, and accurate,
2. can drop a deer (legally), and a man (if need be),
3. has a "high capacity" (take that as you will),
4. is under $800 ($900 absolute MAX), and
5. fires an easily (even if not cheaply) obtainable round??

... and if this rifle exists, where do I buy it without waiting 6 months because of backorders? Thanks!

~J

(p.s. I promise I'm not trolling!!!!)
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:00 AM   #2
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1. Is (first and foremost) utterly reliable, and accurate,
AR-15's are

2. can drop a deer (legally), and a man (if need be),
the .223 can kill deer

3. has a "high capacity" (take that as you will),
100 beta mags?

4. is under $800 ($900 absolute MAX), and
my PSA was $800 out the door

5. fires an easily (even if not cheaply) obtainable round??
.556 an .223 is everywere

... and if this rifle exists, where do I buy it without waiting 6 months because of backorders? Thanks!
gun shops everywere has em.
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:11 AM   #3
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Mine in red

Quote:
1. Is (first and foremost) utterly reliable, and accurate, Nothing is utterly reliable, Murphy happens, that is why you should train immediate action drills. An AR is probably going to be the most accurate out of the box with no aftermarket add ons on average.
2. can drop a deer (legally), and a man (if need be), Depends on your locality. Here in TN people use ARs all the time to drop deer. It is all about bullet construction and shot placement for both criteria.
3. has a "high capacity" (take that as you will), There are more high quality options for AR than any other platform.
4. is under $800 ($900 absolute MAX), and
5. fires an easily (even if not cheaply) obtainable round??

... and if this rifle exists, where do I buy it without waiting 6 months because of backorders? Thanks!

Order it online and have it shipped to your local FFL if they don't have what you want in stock.
You could also do an AK or a Mini-14 but in my experience their controls and optics mounting options make them an inferior option to a basic AR-15.
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Good luck.
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:31 AM   #4
chadio
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A place to start:

Russian SKS

Ruger Mini 30

M1 Garand

... that's where I'd start looking. For what you want to do, I recommended the following calibers: 7.62 x 39, .308, .30-06. Although ~I own and operate and enjoy my AR15 as a target / protective rifle, the .223 / 5.56 does not qualify to hunt deer in the state of WA (.240 cal. minimum as I understand).
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:34 AM   #5
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PTR91, CETME, Saiga maybe?
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Old July 24, 2012, 12:07 PM   #6
chris in va
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Saiga 308, convert it yourself. Will fall under the $900 requirement.

A Saiga in x39 will fit the bill for half that, converted.
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Old July 24, 2012, 12:40 PM   #7
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Yep a Saiga conversion is what I would do. Or, buy one already done...

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct708.aspx

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1126.aspx
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Old July 24, 2012, 01:22 PM   #8
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You could get an AR in a larger caliber other than .223, but I suspect it would exceed your budget.

.223 is marginal for whitetail, there are a lot of guys that use it, and are successful with proper shot placement.

You need to check your state's regs, some do not allow the use of smaller than .243 bullets for deer. Also, depends on the type of hunting- .223 is not a particularly good choice for brush...

Personally, if I had your shopping list, I'd be VERY intrigued by the VEPR in .308...
I've read very positive reviews on them; but I'd need to research warranty/service stateside here given that they are a Russian mfg. weapon (Molot).


http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN-VEPR-308.aspx
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Old July 24, 2012, 01:35 PM   #9
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Gazillion options

but a lot of that'd depend on your take on high capacity, what fits, and tolerable weight limit. These days weight and balance carry a higher premium than in the past.

Whats wrong with the BAR in .308, 5 rd detachable mags, BOSS up front, and a sturdy 4X toward the rear?

salty
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Old July 24, 2012, 02:49 PM   #10
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I missed "even if not cheaply"...

Skip the x39 and find a x51 semi auto like a FAL or VEPR.
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Old July 24, 2012, 03:04 PM   #11
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I'd buy an AR in 5.56 with no hesitation. There are a handful of states where that round is not allowed for big game hunting. If not legal in your state, I'd go 308 bolt rifle.
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Old July 24, 2012, 03:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
1. Is (first and foremost) utterly reliable, and accurate,
the AR15 is a great gun, deadly reliable, super accurate and fun to boot. the only time you hear people talking about the unreliability of the AR is people that have been brainwashed by the piston driven koolaid crowd or AK snobs that think that AR15s are still made the same way that M16s were in Vietnam.

Quote:
2. can drop a deer (legally), and a man (if need be),
I've read up on nebraska hunting regs a couple times for a buddy from there than wanted some pointers and the only stipulation I've seen is no rimfire and that isn't even printed in black and white, they just tend to use to word "centerfire" a lot. as such the 223/5.56 standard caliber for AR15s is legal in Nebraska for hunting. my AR15 was stolen by my older brother one year and he dropped a decent 200LB buck at 250 yards so I would definitely say that it should be a great hunting rifle for your purposes. as far as dropping men goes, the full metal jacket has claimed a few thousand victims on battlefields, movies like "we were soldiers" and "black hawk down" come to mind. a soft tip hunting load would be even more lethal.

Quote:
3. has a "high capacity" (take that as you will),
magazine are available from 5 round low capacity to 100 round drums. most prolifically used is the 30 rounder though. I pack 10 and 20 rounders when hunting and 30 rounders when plinking.

Quote:
4. is under $800 ($900 absolute MAX), and
walmart has DPMS ARs for under $600. the smith and wesson MP15 and palmetto state armory PSA15 are also in the $600 price range. believe it or not, you can buy a budget AR and do a lot of upgrades to it before you hit that $900 threshold.

Quote:
5. fires an easily (even if not cheaply) obtainable round??
ammo for the AR15 is now cheaper than any other rifle round out there(minus 22lr). there is no other centerfire rifle out there that is able to compete with a 223 for economical purposes.

Quote:
... and if this rifle exists, where do I buy it without waiting 6 months because of backorders? Thanks!
budsgunshop.com, palmettostatearmory.com, walmart, bimart, cabelas(a little overpriced), bass proshop(very overpriced) and just about any local gun store.
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Old July 24, 2012, 06:12 PM   #13
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Thanks so much for your responses. It looks like I'll have to take a look at some ARs! I had perused the M&P 15 Sport, and it seemed like a good value, but wasn't sure how they'd fare for deer.
I'll also take a look at the Mini 30 for something with a little more punch.
I like the BAR option, too (hadn't thought of that)...

Other than their weight, I really wish someone made an affordable M1 Garand!

~J
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Old July 24, 2012, 07:44 PM   #14
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AK-47, and you will have money left over for 1000 rounds of ammo so you can get accurate with it.
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:08 PM   #15
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The CETME or Century G3 sound like real options given the price envelope. Almost .308 range and power.
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:22 PM   #16
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I have a Tokarev SVT 40 that I paid $125 for when I bought it. 10rnd, 7.62x54R meets those criteria of yours, I think.

Not sure what they go for nowdays, I've had mine for a while.....
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:43 PM   #17
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AK-47

Accurate enough, .30 caliber round good for all times of animals, runs about $450-500 for a cheap one and $700~ for a higher quality one, and ammo is sold in 800 round tins for $150
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Old July 24, 2012, 10:02 PM   #18
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SKS, and you'll have enough money left over for about 3,000 rounds. I just picked one up in almost unused condition for $220.

Very reliable - it will happily munch through any ammo you feed it (unlike the Mini-30). It comes standard with a fixed 10-round magazine that can be reloaded with stripper clips just about as fast as changing magazines (and you won't have to carry the extra weight and bulk of extra magazines). For hunting you'd probably have to install a 5-round magazine to make it legal (magazines can be swapped after popping out the trigger group. More accurate and a little more velocity than an AK because of its longer barrel.
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Old July 25, 2012, 12:23 AM   #19
Elliottsdad
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SKS/AK47

My father-in-law has an SKS. I've considered those as well, but don't even know where to start as far as finding one in reasonable condition. I don't need a brand new gun, but a lot that I've seen have been beat to crap.

Do you mind if I ask where you found one in such good condition at that price? And while we're on that subject, does anyone know of a place that sells good condition AKs at a reasonable price?
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Old July 25, 2012, 02:18 AM   #20
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Elliotsdad:
Somebody suggested a Mini 30. They are very handy guns with little recoil.
My 30 used only Russian ammo and needed a second firing pin strike about ever forty rounds or so.

It was an older ('04) model, and the only thing I did not like was the thick post sight, having no tool to cut or measure how to thin the post.
The Mini 14 was more reliable and fed better than some of my bolt action guns (old mag springs in some Enfields). But I got tired of that thick post sight in both Minis and sold them.
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Old July 25, 2012, 08:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Do you mind if I ask where you found one in such good condition at that price?
I lucked out... I found it at a pawn shop in Mesa, AZ while visiting my brother. They gave me a great deal because my brother is law-enforcement and I'm retired military, but the original price they asked was $299 (still fairly inexpensive). The gun shoots great - accurate and very reliable. No jams or light primer strikes (Mini-30 comes to mind). It's a military-grade weapon.
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Old July 25, 2012, 10:19 AM   #22
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Here's one source for an SKS, no experience with these in particular, but I've bought from Widener's before with no complaints.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...r=700|701|1029
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Old July 25, 2012, 11:21 AM   #23
tahunua001
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Quote:
Do you mind if I ask where you found one in such good condition at that price? And while we're on that subject, does anyone know of a place that sells good condition AKs at a reasonable price?
last I knew Big 5 was still able to get SKS in stock and their prices are usually pretty competetive. pretty much all of my local guns stores get them in pretty regularly that are all straight from storage. the only place BTP/BTH SKS seem to be in abundance is pawnshops and I've started to remain leery of them around here. I would suggest finding a local gun store(not a pawnshop) that deals heavily with military surplus rifles. that would be your best bet. as for cheap and affordable but still reliable AK?

you may be a little late to the playing field. most AKs have doubled in price over the last 4 years and even the nasty hit or miss romanians that were once everywhere are hard to find. AKs for the most part are now more expensive than AR15s for the first time in history and ammo is going up in price too.
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Old July 25, 2012, 11:35 AM   #24
Kal52
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I have a few AR's and I like them just fine. lots of options. One of the most important to me, but not often mentioned is you can swap chamberings quite quickly. a few pins and you have yourself a new upper/different round.

If you want to be deer legal and go on the cheap, you can have a 6x45 barrel made, (IF YOU RELOAD THAT IS) use the spend .223 brass and pop in a 243 bullet.

Ive shot deer with my .223 and it works well at reasonble ranges.

Not a ton of AK/SKS experience, but they are just not for me, but worth a look.

I really love the minis, I have the 30 tactical and love it, mine has not had one problem, but I stay away from the super cheap surplus, I use PRIVI, silver bear and golden bear or any of the boxer primed ammo.

I sold my old MINI 14, but am going to pick up a newer tactical, just like them and accurate enough for me.
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Old July 25, 2012, 12:15 PM   #25
jason41987
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an AR15 in 6.8mm SPCII, if you shop around can be had for around $800... thatll kill deer out to 600 and possibly beyond, however, its irresponsible to hunt at that range... so 200-400 its even better
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