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Old July 18, 2012, 09:47 PM   #1
DASHZNT
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.308 Winchester Reloading Help..

I have been reloading alot of handgun rounds with my Dillon 550 and now that I plan on doing some long range shooting, I naturally wanna get into making my own custom loads for that as well.

My Rifle is a Remington 700 SS R5 Mil Spec chambered in .308 Winchester. If anyone has any insight as what works great, lease lemme know. A major question I have here is, I like using lead cast in my handgun rounds mainly because of cost, theyre super low... But, I also try to keep the fps lower to avoid lead fouling in the barrel, Is there a lead alternative to .308 (ie. copper plating protection) to avoid lead fouling at high fps needed for rifles and still keep the accuracy, quality and price good? Thank You for your help by the way.
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Old July 18, 2012, 10:27 PM   #2
mrawesome22
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Use the search function. This question has been asked many times over.

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Old July 18, 2012, 10:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Is there a lead alternative to .308 (ie. copper plating protection) to avoid lead fouling at high fps needed for rifles and still keep the accuracy, quality and price good?
No. You want to use jacketed bullets. If you're serious about long range, and by that I mean 500 yds an more, you'll take into consideration your twist rate. I believe the R5 Mil Spec has a 1:11.2" twist. Because of the unique rifling configuration however, this barrel will stabilize bullets from 155 to 190 grains, with 168 to 175 grain bullets probably providing the best 100 yd test groups... typically, 1/2 MOA or better.
Please take the time to read this.

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Old July 19, 2012, 03:34 PM   #4
deepcore
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My .308s are 1:10 and 1:12 twists.
Using (bulk) pulled 147 gr military ball bullets (which when I weigh them come to 149 grs pretty consistently) I can ring the 18" metal swingers at my range all the way out to 600 yds.
Depedning on where you find them they're around $150 for 1,000.
Mind you they might contain steel that may not be allowed in certain ranges.

Will they group better or hit the same spot on the target as well as the more expensive bullets: no.

You pay for the better design and consistent manufacturing.

I think the 250 PC 168 gr Hornady Match pills are a good bargain.
Locally $65. Where as a box of 100 is $30.
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Old July 19, 2012, 07:00 PM   #5
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What Creeper said.
No cheap shortcuts for long range shooting... $.25-$.50 a bullet...
If you want cheap, stick with plinking.
You need precision manufactured, jacketed, high BC boattail bullets.
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Old July 20, 2012, 07:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Is there a lead alternative to .308 (ie. copper plating protection) to avoid lead fouling at high fps needed for rifles and still keep the accuracy, quality and price good? Thank You for your help by the way.
There are advanced techniques, both in metallurgy (alloy making) and bullet treatment (paper patching) that will allow you to get good velocity and accuracy from your rifle. However, it's much easier to use jacketed bullets. ATK, the owners of Speer, Federal, and Alliant powder, is playing with advanced plating techniques that rival jacketed bullets. Those bullets are available as Federal Fusion ammuniton and they're sometimes available to reloaders. I bought several hundred of them as pulled bullets and have used them in several rifles. Accuracy is okay for hunting ammo, but I haven't found a load yet that really shines with those bullets.

You can get really fine accuracy with cast bullets, but you've got to be willing to accept the limits of your casting technique, your reloading technique, your lube, and your rifle. Velocities are necessarily slower than with jacketed and you can learn a lot about yourself and your rifle. However, it's a whole lot easier to buy good jacketed bullets.
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Old July 21, 2012, 09:53 PM   #7
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Lead bullets are good in SOME 30 calibers, but if I had an R5, I'd be loading 168 grain bthps from Hornady or Sierra in match prepped brass over 46.0 of WW748 or BLC2. Yes, you can shoot lead in it, but why? Both bullets will hold 1 hole groups farther than my diabetic vision will allow today.
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Old July 22, 2012, 09:17 AM   #8
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The cheapest bullet for long range shooting is going to be Nosler Custom Competition 175gr BTHP bought in bulk. The old M72 match 173gr FMJBT just won't shoot as tight. The various 168gr BTHP offerings out there don't shoot very well past 800 as they don't handle the transition to subsonic very well.

Good luck shooting.

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Old July 22, 2012, 03:15 PM   #9
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DASHZNT,

A lot of .30 cal competitors have been moving to Reloader 15 powder. I would give that a look. It's what is in the M118 Long Range military sniper load, behind the 175 grain Sierra MatchKing bullet. That's the combination your barrel is designed for. The Noslers likely will work well, too, and the Hornady 178 grain A-max is worth trying.

I get the lowest velocity E.S. from the inexpensive Russian KVB-762 primers, but the Federal 210M's work well, too. You also have the option of buying Lapua Palma brass, which has small primer pockets, and using a Federal 205M in those. Whether it's a large or small primer pocket type, Lapua brass is the most consistent I've found. It's expensive but lasts if you take care of it. That small primer pocket is because long range (1000 yard) Palma match shooters get lower velocity ES from the small primer (though you do need a load that fills the case well, too).

If you're not familiar with it, check out Dan Newberry's site for a systematic approach to developing accurate loads.


Paw Paw,

Hornady has the gilding metal plating thing figured out. It's apparently at least part of their AMP (advanced manufacturing process) for jackets. The name is probably a play on the fact you need amps of current to electroplate. They've used it to replace their ENC line of handgun bullets, as the plating can be made to surround the whole bullet. They now also use it for their HP match bullets, their A-max match bullets, and on their Z-max line, claiming it virtually eliminates jacket runout and unevenness.
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Old July 22, 2012, 06:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
Hornady has the gilding metal plating thing figured out. It's apparently at least part of their AMP (advanced manufacturing process) for jackets. The name is probably a play on the fact you need amps of current to electroplate. They've used it to replace their ENC line of handgun bullets, as the plating can be made to surround the whole bullet. They now also use it for their HP match bullets, their A-max match bullets, and on their Z-max line, claiming it virtually eliminates jacket runout and unevenness.
Really! Thanks! I didn't know that! I've been shooting their AMAX bullets for a while now, getting some great results. I didn't realize those were plated.
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Old July 22, 2012, 07:51 PM   #11
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Unclenick,

The 175 SMK and the Remington 5R barrel do go together, but it was the M24 sniper rifle that came first. Sierra created a replacement for the 173 FMJBT that they were making for the 118 Special Ball loading, the 175 SMK was the result and the sniper ammo was redesignated 118 LR, for Long Range.

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Old July 22, 2012, 07:58 PM   #12
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I didn't know Sierra made 173 gr M1/Match FMJ bullets.
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Old July 22, 2012, 08:03 PM   #13
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I recall that Sierra was the one that made the 173gr M118SB bullets, although I'm positive that other bullet manufacturers over the years made projectiles for the M72 match load, and the M1 Ball before it.

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Old July 22, 2012, 09:20 PM   #14
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Yes, the barrel was originally for the 173, but the 173's design influenced the 175 design, so in a way it all goes around in a circle.

Actually, I'm pretty sure all the 173's for M118 SB and M118 Match were made by Lake City. When they first took over manufacturing National Match ammo from Frankford Arsenal starting in 1962, they put a lot of effort into improving how they made that bullet, so LC has the tooling for it. But the 168 grain SMK proved consistently more accurate in service rifle matches (600 yards maximum range targets) when it was substituted for the 173 (so-called "Mexican match" ammunition), so they came to recognize the military match load was at a competitive disadvantage without that bullet, and started making M852 match ammo for which they did buy the 168 grain bullets from Sierra. But that had the not-for-combat open tip warning on the boxes.

Then in the 80's, the Adjutant General issued an opinion that the small match bullet open tips were non-expanding and therefore not a violation of the Hague Accords. They then tried M852 in the M24 sniper system, but because its 13° boattail tends to make it dynamically unstable in the transonic range (starting around 700 yards in .308) it didn't hit at long range reliably. So they went back to the 173 grain BT FMJ and started working with Sierra to develop the 175 using the 9° boattail that proved stable through the transonic range on the 173 grain bullet. That's why the 175 does well at distance.
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