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Old July 22, 2012, 04:40 PM   #1
Grampaof5
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Join Date: July 21, 2012
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A question about ownership, again.

I know this question has been asked and answered so many times before, but I ask for your patience, as I'm the "new kid" with TFL.
I digress;
As a result of diminishing eyesight, I have to give my guns (2 semi-auto pistols, 2 shotguns, and 2 semi-auto rifles) to my son.
He lives in California, and I live in Illinois (NOT in Chicago, thank you !).
I have read so many interpretations and variations of the "rules", just what must I do to make this happen ?
My guns are ALL legal (with receipts).
He is NOT a felon with a criminal record, and he is NOT crazy, and he has promised that he will keep the guns stored in a safe, which I bought for him.
Does he, or I, have to go through an FFL dealer, file a form and wait 30 days ?
Does he have to register these guns with California law enforcement ?
Thanks for understanding my delimna.
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:00 PM   #2
Creeper
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Regarding the shipment and receipt of firearms only...

On his end, he has to receive the guns from an FFL. You being a private party, the Cal. FFL may or may not receive the firearm(s) at their discretion... like any FFL anywhere, it's their choice. Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of... it's no different than shipping a firearm to any other state.

If you ship via an FFL in your state, they must have a CFLC (California Firearms Licensee Check) number. The FFL must enroll in the CFLC program to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval numbers prior to shipping firearms to California.

I know the above, because I used to ship firearms from WA to CAL on a near daily basis. The CFLC part was a small PITA, but once enrolled, the shipping dealer only needs a few minutes to obtain the number on line.

Quote:
Does he, or I, have to go through an FFL dealer, file a form and wait 30 days ?
Does he have to register these guns with California law enforcement ?
These questions I do not know, as I've not been a Cal. resident for several decades.

That's all I know.
C
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:51 PM   #3
wally626
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http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...ms/Cfl2007.pdf

Covers the firearm laws of California. If the weapons are allowed by CA then it should be just a straight forward transferr through a FFL, forms will have to be filled out for sure. Transferrs of weapons between people in CA almost always requires passing through a FFL. Transfers from persons out of state also require going through a FFL. There are a couple of very limited exceptions if I remember correctly for in-state transferrs, but those would not apply to you and your son.

What I am not sure on is transferr of weapons that are not on CA's list of safe weapons. There are also bans on certain types of semi-automatic rifles. You may want to give your son a list of the weapons with good descriptions he can take to a local FFL to make sure they can be sent to CA. He can also then check on how the FFL will accept shipments and what fees etc. may be involved.
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Old July 22, 2012, 06:07 PM   #4
Jim March
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The big gotchas that I know of are:

* No shipping mags of more than 10rd capacity in.

* No .410ga revolvers AT ALL in California (Taurus Judge, S&W Governor, BFRs in .410, etc.).
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Old July 22, 2012, 07:08 PM   #5
Frank Ettin
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Here's the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:
Quote:
18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
...
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:53 PM   #6
shaunpain
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Taken from http://chris.cc/interstate.htm:

2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State?

Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an
individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person
to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must
be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or
she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a
NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov
and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception
from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes.
Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another
exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or
acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a
nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).

The temporary loan loophole is intriguing, but I'm not sure how safe that option really is (probably not very safe). It seems so counterintuitive for these guns to get shipped when I'd rather see them driven across state lines (seems like a no brainer to me), but because this will be a "transfer", ATF laws apply. Basically, the poster above answered all of your questions. A licensee must receive the guns, and all CA laws must apply.
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Old July 23, 2012, 12:01 AM   #7
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunpain
...The temporary loan loophole is intriguing, but I'm not sure how safe that option really is (probably not very safe)...
The temporary loan exception does not allow a lender to ship or transport the gun across state lines or a borrower to receive the gun in his home State or take the gun home. Doing either would violate 18 USC 922(a)(5) which has no "loan" exception.
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Old July 23, 2012, 12:41 AM   #8
shaunpain
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Thanks for clarifying that, Frank. That completely shuts the door on any other options you may have, Grampaof5. I would like to say that your son is one heck of a lucky fella to be gettin' those guns!!!
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Old July 23, 2012, 01:15 AM   #9
rtpzwms
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grandpaof5,

Your son will have to do some local homework to help this out. He will need to find an FFL here that really understands the state laws of CA this may take some time. here is a like to a form that should help him talk to the local FFL's. the phrase your looking for is Intra-Familial. This is easy if within the state, a little harder from out of state. If the long gun is listed on the banned list then it can't enter the state. Any mags over 10 rounds are out of luck. Handguns that are no on the approved CA list are exempt for Intra-Familial transfers. Good Luck!

PS make sure every gun that is sent has paperwork stating that this is a gift to you son.
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Old July 23, 2012, 01:58 AM   #10
mrbatchelor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunpain View Post
Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).
Under 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5), considering my father died this spring and his will simply states "share and share alike" between the two of us, when it's time to divide the firearms can we simply agree between ourselves and take possession, then cross state lines with rifles in the trunk of the car?

There's no argument about who wants what. And we "could" leave them in the family home without crossing the state line. But that would seem a little silly. But shipping the rifles we used as kids to a local FFL so we can "receive" them is almost as inane.
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Old July 23, 2012, 07:41 AM   #11
Grampaof5
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Join Date: July 21, 2012
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Asked for, and RECEIVED ! THANKS TO ALL

WOW, Thanks to all for so many exellent answers to my question. I did indeed, come to the right spot, and far better than any of the explanations from the so-called experts at the gun stores. I don't believe how much government, bureaucrtic baloney there is to giving gifts to someone.
Thanks again, all. I got to get to reading.....G-Pa/5
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Old July 24, 2012, 01:16 AM   #12
hermannr
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When you inherit a gun it does not have to be specific by SN. don't worry about it...take your share home with you. you inherited it.
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