The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 20, 2012, 05:43 PM   #1
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
I messed up - need advice

I am relatively new to reloading. I have reloaded a total of 350 rounds of 9mm and around 200 rounds of .223.

I was seating bullets for a batch of 40 rounds of .223 - 55 gr FMJ and I did not notice I had set the bullet seating die incorrectly. I ended up squishing the shoulder on about 30 out of the 40 rounds (see pictures).

I do not think I can shoot these rounds since most of them would not chamber (I am shooting a Savage 223 bolt action). I have a bullet puller so I am planning on pulling the bullets to at least salvage those.

If I pull the bullets, can I salvage the brass by trying to resize them? If so, how would I safely remove the live primers? Or can I resize them with the live primer in the case if I remove the decapping pin on the resize die?

Some of the rounds (about 10 of them) look OK and when I measure the shoulder width they are around 0.354 to 0.358 which is wider than the case spec for 223 but in line with spent brass that I have (the ones that are obviously deformed are 0.361 and wider).

Would the ones that are 0.354 - 0.358 be safe to fire assuming they chamber? Or would the out of spec shoulder size increase pressures?

So to summarize:

1. If I remove the bullets and the primers, do you think the brass can be salvaged and resized? If so, how would I safely remove the live primers? Or can I resize them with the live primer in the case if I remove the decapping pin on the resize die?

2. Would the cartridges that look OK be safe to fire as long as they chamber in my bolt action rifle?

Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010254-2.jpg (69.9 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg P1010255-2.jpg (101.1 KB, 72 views)
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 05:50 PM   #2
praetorian97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2011
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 455
Measure after you run them through the resizer die again. From the pic the damage does not look too bad. But then again I cant zoom in on it.

As far as removing the live primer, you should have seen me during my first live primer removal. You would have thought I was going into a nuclear vault.

Do you have a dedicated universal deprimer die? I love my Lee deprimer die. Deprime with that slowly and then lube/resize them with your normal die.
praetorian97 is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 05:57 PM   #3
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
I do have the Lee universal depriming die. So that one is safe to use on a live primer (assuming very careful, light and steady pressure)?
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 06:06 PM   #4
flashhole
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Location: Owego, NY
Posts: 1,313
If you can't chamber the round don't do anything but pull the bullets and trash the brass. They will not resize properly. You can salvage the powder and the bullets.

If you can chamber the round (without excessive force) they will fire-form to be used again.
__________________
Gun control is hitting what you aim at..
flashhole is online now  
Old July 20, 2012, 06:53 PM   #5
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
I just pulled the 40 bullets, it was a major pain. 20 of the cases were PMC and they just required one or two measured strikes with the bullet puller.

The other 20 were Remington and I had to channel Thor to get the bullets out of those suckers.

So now I have the bullets, powder and the 40 empty cases with live primers.


So far one person suggested de-priming and resizing, another for chucking the brass. Anyone else have experience with this situation that could weigh in on it? If the brass is salvageable and removing the primers is safe I would like to do so. But if the chance of running it through the resizing die in nonexistant then I would just as soon dispose of the brass.

Please advice.

Thanks
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 06:56 PM   #6
the led farmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 116
pull the batch don't shoot them. salvage the bullet, powder and primer and toss the brass, not worth diddling with it then chalk it up to lesson learned.

take out your instructions and re read them, then re set your dies according to the instructions, then re read your instructions and double check your dies.

btw are you using the lee factory crimp die?
the led farmer is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 06:58 PM   #7
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Yes, the Lee factory crimp die, why?
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 07:27 PM   #8
NESHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2009
Posts: 509
Quote:
Yes, the Lee factory crimp die, why?
I see your putting too much crimp on those babies, for a bolt shooter and you say those are FMJ's look like something else. (I use a LFCD but no where the amount you use).
NESHOOTER is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 07:28 PM   #9
the led farmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 116
ha ha, i knew it. i joined this forum a few weeks ago because i was researching a different question and basically the same thing came up about over crimping.

i use the lee classic turret press and lee dies, (9mm and .223 go figure) with the fcd, i have had excellent results with lee precision except the first batch of .223 i made where i buckled the shoulder just like yourself and many others. i went to the range and the first cartridge got stuck in the chamber. i learned three lessons that day:

1. don't load in poor lighting

2. don't crank 'em out until i am SURE the dies are set correctly and the finished round is where i want it

3. the chamber test never fails

i did what i recommend to you, i read, then re read then set then re read and re set again until i got it right. it's very easy to over do it and mangle brass, i bet when you pulled those bullets the cannelure was very pronounced vs. an unseated/uncrimped bullet of yours. the crimp should be subtle, just look at commercial factory crimped ammo, it's barely noticeable. a factory cannelure is also subtle.

the example i gave in another thread is anyone who has mangled a piece of brass with pliers knows how easy it is to deform the brass. anyone who has gotten their finger caught in the press ram knows how much pressure is exerted on the case, (if you don't believe me GENTLY stick your finger between the ram and a die, i promise you won't go a full stroke). if you don't have the die seated correctly it's gonna mangle the cartridge.

if you haven't already check out all the video's

lee precision help videos
the led farmer is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 07:29 PM   #10
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
You are correct, they are SP bullets (JHP), not FMJ, I made an incorrect statement about the type of bullets in the original post.
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 07:50 PM   #11
flashhole
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Location: Owego, NY
Posts: 1,313
You can try and salvage the brass and hope nothing goes wrong when you pull the trigger on the round made from compromised salvaged components. You can also go out and pee on an electric fence or take the word of folks who tell you peeing on an electric fence is a bad thing to do. Your choice.
__________________
Gun control is hitting what you aim at..
flashhole is online now  
Old July 20, 2012, 08:15 PM   #12
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Haha, I think I'll pass on peeing on electric fences.

I did however de-prime the active primers without issue. I found other postings on this topic and I did the 'towel over press, de-priming gently with double eye protection and ear protection' and it went well. This was with the universal de-primer die which does not touch the brass.

After de-priming I ran the brass through the full-size re-sizing die and that brought them back to spec nicely. If this had been range brass I probably would not have bothered but these 40 are once-fired by myself, in the same bolt-action gun so I know it has not been subjected to a lot.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the 40 live primers I pulled. Maybe I'll just use them again... I kid, I kid!
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 08:19 PM   #13
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Led farmer, thanks for the advise, I will definitely check, double-check and then re-check the dies from here on + check the first few cartridges before proceeding with the rest. Funny thing was I did continuously caliper-check the rounds for COAL while seating the bullets, now I know I need to pay more attention to the shoulder integrity as well.

Good learning experience for sure, just glad it happened to the 40 rounds I did today and not the 80 I did yesterday...
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 08:44 PM   #14
the led farmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 116
Quote:
Funny thing was I did continuously caliper-check the rounds for COAL while seating the bullets
ya buddy, been there done that! i thought i was hot **** because my coal was spot on. ha ha

btw what press are you using?

Quote:
Maybe I'll just use them again... I kid, I kid!
if you are kidding, don't there is nothing wrong with those primers. use em again
the led farmer is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 08:46 PM   #15
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
The RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme, really like it so far.
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 08:58 PM   #16
serf 'rett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2009
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 1,378
I'd put the primers into the next batch of practice ammo
__________________
A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.
serf 'rett is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 09:22 PM   #17
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Just loaded up 10 of the cases and they came out just fine. Was definitely the sizing die that messed them up the last time (or rather me setting the die incorrectly).

Of course the led tip on the bullets were smashed on just about all of them from the force of hitting the inside of the bullet puller so they'll probably fly all over the place. Going to the range tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how they place.

Interesting that the unspent primers can be reused, I did not use them on these 10 cases but I'll put them into the next batch.
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 09:41 PM   #18
Sport45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Too close to Houston
Posts: 4,076
The factory crimp die didn't do that. Neither did the sizing die. My guess is that happened in the seating die because they were hitting the crimp ring. Back the body of the seating die out so that it's not trying to crimp if you use the FCD later. (I woudn't crimp any of them.)

If you do crimp. Make sure all are trimmed to the same length.

I'd save the bullets, powder, and primers and toss the brass in my recycle bucket. Use the primers for range work. I've never had a re-inserted primer fail, but I wouldn't use them for competition or hunting.
__________________
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
Sport45 is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 09:43 PM   #19
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Sport45, you are right, I meant to say the seating die, not the sizing die.
overthere is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 11:19 PM   #20
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,302
Unless you lubed the cases to deprime, no reason you can't reuse the primers
1stmar is offline  
Old July 20, 2012, 11:44 PM   #21
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
You could have pulled your decapping pin and resized without your pin and then your brass would have been ready. No need to decap, and deprime and then reprime. But all in all it was a good lesson.
farmerboy is offline  
Old July 21, 2012, 01:03 AM   #22
the led farmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 116
Quote:
Where are you guys getting this info? Is this what Lee prints on how to set up a crimp?
yes:

3 die set

4 die set

now, they both lead to the same result, because it boils down to the same thing. which is right? the one that doesn't mangle the cartridge of course!
the led farmer is offline  
Old July 21, 2012, 10:40 PM   #23
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
FWIW the 10 rounds I loaded yesterday shot great even though the varmint tip was flattened when the bullets were pulled.

Of the two groups of four (the magazine holds 4 rounds), the best one had all four within an inch at 100 yards with my bolt action, unsupported with bipod & 3x9 Nikon scope (see attachment).

The cases look great, I had a light load of 20.5 gr H322.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20120721_105026-2.jpg (116.8 KB, 14 views)
overthere is offline  
Reply

Tags
223 ammo

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11979 seconds with 8 queries