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Old July 16, 2012, 08:34 PM   #1
doc540
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Old Dude vs Two Armed Thugs

No, it's not me because he used a .380.

http://www.ocala.com/article/2012071...net-Cafe&tc=ar

Serious, sad, but kinda funny.

The dude that hit the floor twice looked like he was trying to swim to get away.

Good work, pawpaw.
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Old July 16, 2012, 09:01 PM   #2
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I actually live not too far from the location of the incident.

I wanted to drive down and high-five the old man.
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Old July 16, 2012, 09:08 PM   #3
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Wow... Considering how fast that unfolds I don't think anyone could have done much better than the old guy in white... My hero!... Cool... Stealthy... No hesitation...

(The video clip on page two is well worth one's time... WAIT... It takes a minute to load!) Link to video:

http://www.ocala.com/article/2012071...WS01?p=2&tc=pg
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Old July 16, 2012, 09:45 PM   #4
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Seems like there have been many stories over the years of "some old dude" who ends up coming out on top of these altercations.

The meanest, toughest people I know are all over 50. Often underestimated to boot.
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Old July 16, 2012, 10:17 PM   #5
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I wonder if he hit any of them.
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Old July 16, 2012, 10:27 PM   #6
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Oh yeah!...

Quote:
Both men were shot by Williams. Their wounds were not life-threatening. Each was arrested hours later and charged with attempted armed robbery with a firearm and felony criminal mischief.
I wonder what makes the BG turn back towards "my hero"... Maybe his accomplice has seen the gun and shouts?... Anyhow, right then there's an amazing moment where the BG has leveled RIGHT at him but apparently doesn't fire... (Like... thinking too much... like... maybe thinking of some bravado line to say...)

But "my hero" DOES fire!!

Maybe a vet... Maybe been under fire before... Probably KNOWS that the one second hesitation is what can get ya' killed.

Just a great instructive video clip.
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Old July 16, 2012, 10:53 PM   #7
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Wow, looks like they have an entirely different definition of internet cafe in Florida than we do in Georgia. Either way glad it all worked out well for the innocent citizens and the bag guys are going to jail.
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Old July 16, 2012, 11:03 PM   #8
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If you read the articles from the Ocala area papers, they answer some questions.

1) The BG with the gun doesn't fire because his gun is unloaded and rusted tight. He was bluffing with an inert relic. Bad call on his part - not that robbery was a good call in the first place.

2) The one that hits the floor was wounded in the hip and buttocks. The other was hit in the arm.

The one who went to the floor was indignant that the shooter fired on him after he fell. Guess he never thought to toss the gun away and put his hands up....
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Old July 16, 2012, 11:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
The BG with the gun doesn't fire because his gun is unloaded and rusted tight. He was bluffing with an inert relic.
Thanks for filling that in.

He's SO lucky he was only wounded.
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Old July 17, 2012, 05:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
The meanest, toughest people I know are all over 50. Often underestimated to boot
We live in a world obsessed with appearances. Never judge a book by its cover, it's a bad idea.

The "old guy" displayed some quick thinking and took action. Nice job.
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Old July 17, 2012, 06:40 AM   #11
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Just a "Thank You" to doc540, . . . made my day !

May God bless,
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Old July 17, 2012, 07:28 AM   #12
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I bet Mr. Williams was busy reading posts on the TFL when this happened...

Anyway, one report has Mr. Williams still shooting at the thugs as they ran for the door. http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/120719763

Quote:
Both robbers began running toward the front door, and the patron fired several more shots as they fled.
If true, that was probably not a very good idea on Mr. Williams' part. In many jurisdictions, this would likely result in charges being filed against him.
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Old July 17, 2012, 07:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Wow, looks like they have an entirely different definition of internet cafe in Florida than we do in Georgia
Internet cafes here are a euphamism for quasi-legal gambling machines. Lots of controversy over them. They are trying to skirt the gambling laws. Lots have been closed up by LE when investigators can prove they are being used for gambling but for trying to keep them closed is a loosing proposition. They are frequently the target of armed robbers because these places are cash cows.
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Old July 17, 2012, 08:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
If true, that was probably not a very good idea on Mr. Williams' part. In many jurisdictions, this would likely result in charges being filed against him.
It doesn't matter if they run or not so long as they still pose a deadly threat to people. That they are running does not negate that they are a threat.

It keeps the robbers from stopping to turn around to deal out some of their own frustration and shooting folks in the building as they leave.
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
It doesn't matter if they run or not so long as they still pose a deadly threat to people. That they are running does not negate that they are a threat.

It keeps the robbers from stopping to turn around to deal out some of their own frustration and shooting folks in the building as they leave.
I think this may be one of those times when your idea of what is "right", "just" and "moral" doesn't agree with the law.

Historically, the law has taken a *very* dim view of shooting a fleeing suspect based on what they *might* do. Now, had they actually been shooting at other patrons while running away from the "good guy", then the good guy would still have a solid case for "defense of others". But shooting someone who's running scared just because they might shoot someone else on the way out would be a hard sell in court. This guy is lucky he didn't hit any bystanders while shooting at the fleeing suspects - that would have almost certainly bitten him in the ass in a civil case.
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Old July 17, 2012, 10:05 AM   #16
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Running for the door ... meh, maybe.

But he shot a couple times through the doorway. Probably not so smart.
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Old July 17, 2012, 10:54 AM   #17
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Mitch, In florida, we can fire at these fleeing perpetrators of aggravated felony crimes such as this'n...

On a side note... anyone else notice the dust that is dislodged by the muzzle blast of the .380... Can be seen falling in the final seconds...
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Though Henderson said he doesn't blame Williams for shooting, he takes exception with Williams shooting at him while he was down.

"I was down, and I'm not going to continue to shoot you," he said.
I am angry that this guy even has the right, anymore, to say anything about being shot at while scampering away like a coward.

Don't try and rob someone at gunpoint and expect to see sympathy in return when your robbery doesn't go according as planned.

Taken from the this Gainsville link (page 4)
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:52 AM   #19
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ever hear about taking a knife to a gun fight? how about taking a non working gun to a gun fight. dumb and dumber. eastbank.
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Old July 17, 2012, 12:54 PM   #20
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This just reinforces my belief that any gun that goes bang can be effective. Most thugs are cowards, and they will run from any armed defense.
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Old July 17, 2012, 02:21 PM   #21
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Shazam! That was a great vid. Really kept his cool. Thanks Doc.
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Old July 17, 2012, 02:58 PM   #22
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Independent of the attaboys and not to be critical of the good samaritan - notice the lack of use of the sights except maybe for the first shot. Then there was a good deal of unsighted trusting the gun forward, bringing up in a movie type reaction to recoil and then trusting it out again.

One handed shooting and a strange two handed forearm grip for the off hand.

Could be stress or lack of training. Many videos show under stress folks going one handed and just point shooting at speed.

Given the lack of decisive hits, I find the tape interesting as to the shooting dynamics. As far as the last shot by the door, that's still in the active incident. He didn't go after them, I think.
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRiqui
I think this may be one of those times when your idea of what is "right", "just" and "moral" doesn't agree with the law.

Historically, the law has taken a *very* dim view of shooting a fleeing suspect based on what they *might* do. Now, had they actually been shooting at other patrons while running away from the "good guy", then the good guy would still have a solid case for "defense of others". But shooting someone who's running scared just because they might shoot someone else on the way out would be a hard sell in court.
I disagree. I don't think the perp with the (rusty) firearm dropped it when he was shot. Since the older gentleman had no way of knowing the perp's gun was rusty and unloaded, the apparent threat was still real and active as long as the perp had the gun in hand or within reach.

[EDIT] Just watched the video again, full screen. The perp DID retain the gun -- it was still in his right hand as he exited stage right outside the door in the final frames of the video.

Still an active threat, and therefore a justifiable target.
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Old July 18, 2012, 02:14 AM   #24
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Note to self:

Do not run into the line of fire with both hands over your ears like that woman did.
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Old July 18, 2012, 02:32 AM   #25
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Watch the video before commenting. The old man did not run after them once they exited. He first fired at the one holding the gun, then fired 2-3 more shots as they were running for the door. Once the criminals exited the cafe, the old man did not follow them, nor did he continue to shoot. This is one of those examples where the media is a little too creative when telling the story. They can say whatever they want to say, but the video says it all.

The video is on youtube, but I won't link to it because of a few racist comments that have been made by several youtube users. Just type "old man internet cafe shooting" and it should come up.
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