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Old July 14, 2012, 07:10 PM   #1
rebs
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H335 ?

I have been using H335 and now have read that it is quite temperature sensitive, is this right and to what extent ? Does it mean that it is temperature sensitive enough that come fall and the colder weather that I will have to work up a new load for my AR 15 ?
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Old July 14, 2012, 08:38 PM   #2
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Yes if a load of 25.5 gr works great in spring summer it will vary in the colder weather, usually slower velocity in the cold if using a summer load. Varget on the other hand is way more stable. I live in az and just load h335 at 24.5 for plinking and can notice the difference from summer to winter and I don't have a crony

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Old July 14, 2012, 09:06 PM   #3
rebs
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Quote:
Yes if a load of 25.5 gr works great in spring summer it will vary in the colder weather, usually slower velocity in the cold if using a summer load. Varget on the other hand is way more stable. I live in az and just load h335 at 24.5 for plinking and can notice the difference from summer to winter and I don't have a crony
About how much of a difference in accuracy ? Is it enough that I should stop with the H335 and work up a load using Varget or another powder ?

H335 in a load of 24.5 is extremely accurate in my AR 15 with a 55 gr bullet.
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Old July 14, 2012, 09:15 PM   #4
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Heck...now ya'll mention that H335 is temp sensitive. I've just finished a lengthy 223 workup with H335 behind 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. I'll have to check how it shoots when the weather cools down in the Fall. If there's a grouping change, I'll just tape the extra ammo to my chest to keep it at 98.6 or so. Hmmm, but that won't help the first shot from the cold barrel.
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Old July 14, 2012, 09:18 PM   #5
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All powder is temp sensitive. Double based more than single based.

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Old July 14, 2012, 10:34 PM   #6
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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OK, I have also heard the cautions about H335 when I was planning to use it in my 45/70.

Soooooooooooo, I loaded up some of my hunting loads, put them in my up right freezer for a couple of days, then on one of my early morning shooting/testing sessions I quickly removed the ammo from the freezer, and packed it into a cooler with ice packs.

Went to the range, set up and then removed the ammo one cartridge at a time from the cooler/ice and fired each round over the chronograph and into the 100yd target.

The results ------------ barely any velocity loss and compairable groups with non- frozen ammo.

From my limited testing I can see nothing even close to a problem with cold weather use of H335.

Keep em coming!

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Old July 15, 2012, 05:31 AM   #7
rebs
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Quote:
OK, I have also heard the cautions about H335 when I was planning to use it in my 45/70.

Soooooooooooo, I loaded up some of my hunting loads, put them in my up right freezer for a couple of days, then on one of my early morning shooting/testing sessions I quickly removed the ammo from the freezer, and packed it into a cooler with ice packs.

Went to the range, set up and then removed the ammo one cartridge at a time from the cooler/ice and fired each round over the chronograph and into the 100yd target.

The results ------------ barely any velocity loss and compairable groups with non- frozen ammo.

From my limited testing I can see nothing even close to a problem with cold weather use of H335.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
This was good to hear, thanks for posting
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Old July 15, 2012, 01:29 PM   #8
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Yes, thanks for that info. And now I won't have to tape ammo to my chest to keep it warm.
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Old July 15, 2012, 04:36 PM   #9
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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Afternoon fellers,

Sure hope I don't cause anyone a problem, but after seeing posts on this powder, and with H335 doing so well in my 45/70, I wanted to go that route.

But---------------- as clearly you also have, I rec'd and read cautions as to cold weather problems with that powder.

Sooooooo, as I said, I froze loaded ammo for at least a couple of days and then without allowing it to warm to any great degree, Shot it.

The results were as I indicated, at least for me, a non-issue.

Not sure what the temp is on this freezer, but it is low enough that we regularly keep WELL WRAPPED wild game for 2 plus years with no sign of problems.

Anyway, my limited testing gave me confidence to use the H335 during our hunts which run into the first of December here in Ideeeeeho.

CDOC
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Old July 15, 2012, 05:09 PM   #10
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I use 24.5 grains of H-335 in .223 and like it for both plinking and coyote loads. Of course, out here we only have three seasons, hot dry, hot wet, and mildly cool.
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Old July 17, 2012, 06:36 AM   #11
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Haven't Noticed

I have been loading it for 223 for about four years now. It works more reliably for me in that I get better groups with it than Varget and I load year round and shoot year round. I actually think that as the temp gets a little cooler, down below freezing, my groups seem to tighten up with it. I live and hunt in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan so we have four seasons - early winter, winter, late winter, and construction. Seriously, we have all temperature and humidity extremes and I have yet to notice any difference in either chronographed velocity or accuracy. Plus it meters well for me.
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Old July 18, 2012, 12:14 AM   #12
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I use H335 in .223, 7.62x39, and .32 Winchester. Living in SW Colorado, we have cold, freezing, defrosting, and time to get the firewood while dodging tourists. Everything it pushes for me, it does well no matter the conditions.
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Old July 18, 2012, 01:25 AM   #13
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Good thing I didn't know about reloading with H335s temperature sensitivity when I shot hundreds of enemy soda and beer cans in temperatures rangeing from below zero to above 100 degrees F. over the last 33 years with a stock AR15 SP.

How would you keep those rounds at 98.8 body temperature if you ran out of tape?
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Old July 18, 2012, 05:25 AM   #14
rebs
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I am starting to see this as a myth about temperature sensitive H335
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Old July 18, 2012, 01:01 PM   #15
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another case of nternet "wisdom" formerly known as BS. spread by fools with bigger mouths (now fingers?) than brains........................
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Old July 18, 2012, 03:24 PM   #16
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H335 is cannister grade WC844, a St. Marks manufactured military ball ammunition powder developed for the 5.56 NATO round and used in M193 and M855 and their corresponding tracer rounds. As you might imagine, military powders have to work over a wide range of temperature conditions so you can expect the powder itself will continue to function suitable rifles over such a range. On the other hand, military ball ammunition accuracy requirements are not normally high by civilian marksmanship standards. You also may have noticed the military uses stick powders in their match and sniper ammunition. That said, a number of folks have reported more modern spherical propellant formulations, such as the Ramshot line and the newer Alliant and Hodgdon powders don't necessarily have either the fouling or the ignition difficulties that the older military formulations did so this is a fluid situation and, as always, you'll have to test these in your own guns to find out what they will or won't do.

Denton Bramwell shows pretty convincingly that barrel temperature matters to performance much more than powder temperature. Thus, cold barrel vs. warm barrel should be your primary concern. Cold weather function for civilians is mostly about hunting where a cold barrel shot will be made. Unfortunately, icing a barrel up in warm weather means condensation, so this is not a test normally looked forward to.
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Old July 18, 2012, 08:42 PM   #17
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warningshot, that's a good question but from what I see on this thread, I don't need to worry about taping ammo to my chest. That's good, cause I'm getting low on chest hair. I'll just go back to keeping ammo in my pocket.
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Old July 19, 2012, 08:03 AM   #18
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It occurs to me, having seen cook-off firings twice, to suggest that when you work up a load of any powder to maximum, unless you absolutely know you will never use the gun rapid fire, you should intentionally fire enough rounds at a rapid fire pace to get it warm. Then put a body temperature round in and let it sit in the chamber it for about a minute to let it heat and the carbon fouling stiffen a little, then fire it and check for pressure signs again.
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