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Old July 14, 2012, 04:52 PM   #1
SecretInfantry
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Help: Reloading 9mm, 115 gr bullets with Titegroup

I'm a reloading virgin and have have just loaded my first 300 rounds on my blue press...but have never shot my own loads. No pun intended...

The first 150 rds. were loaded with these specifics: .355" 115 GR Rainier Plated RN bullets, Winchester 9mm brass, CCI 500 small pistol primers, 4.2 to 4.3 gr of Titegroup OAL = 1.162"

The second 150 rds. I loaded with these specs: Hornady .355" 115 GR XTP bullets, Winchester 9mm brass, CCI 500 small pistol primers, 4.6 - 4.7 gr of Titegroup, OAL 1.095"

I intend to fire these rounds through a Glock 17 but am concerned that the second batch I loaded might be unsafe...

Would someone please let me know if I should start breaking down that batch and reload them using a smaller charge as according to the data on the Titegroup's bottle label the maximum charge is 4.8 g.r. with a 115 g.r. bullet with an OAL of 1.125".

Advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old July 14, 2012, 05:30 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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First advice, never, ever, ever load 150 rounds of ANYTHING unless you've tested much smaller batches. 10, 15, 20. NEVER 150.

Second, where did you get the data for those loads? You should be starting at a starting load from official published data. Hodgdon lists 4.5gr starting load for 115gr. If your data shows max only, you should be starting at 10% less, which would be 4.3gr.

Do you have and have you read a modern load manual?
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Old July 14, 2012, 05:59 PM   #3
GlenF
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115 Berrys

SecretInfantry, I have experimented with that exact load. Although that is not what I use now, My notes/spreadsheet show that the 4.0 (would not cycle slide on all pistols)to 4.7gr Tightgroup with 115gr Berrys were very accurate, and showed no signs of overpressure. I never did run them through a chrono to get velocities. Also, I don't recall how I came up with that load.

These would have been used in Glock 19 and 26, and S&W M&P 9L.

I need to make some more of that load up just to chrono them, and get my notes up to date.

I also use a Blue Press. ; )

Last edited by GlenF; July 14, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old July 14, 2012, 06:26 PM   #4
SecretInfantry
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Brian,

Thanks for the speedy reply your advice is appreciated and duly noted.

I recently purchased the Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook and also the ABC's of reloading and have read them both multiple times.

I went on Hodgdon's web site and found this data for TG using 115 gr spr GDHP .355 = COL 1.125" 4.5 - 4.8 gr.

I got this data from the Lyman 49th edition manual for TG using 115 gr Jacked HP OAL 1.090", 4.0 - 4.5 gr.

My goal is to stay safe and enjoy shooting and reloading for many years to come... I chose to stay within the minimum and maximum charge data for btoh of these loads and see how they would perform.

I loaded the 4.6 - 4.7 grains of TG with Hornady's 115 gr XTP Jacketed Hollow Points based on Hodgdon's min and max charge data and figured that if I kept within this range that I would be safe.

What do you recommend? Should I break down the 150 rounds loaded with 4.6 - 4.7 grains of TG and reload them with the minimum charge of 4.5 grains according to this data?
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Old July 14, 2012, 06:32 PM   #5
SecretInfantry
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GlenF,

Thanks for your reply as it has put me somewhat at ease...What was the COL/OAL while using 4.7 gr of TG?
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Old July 14, 2012, 06:34 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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I advise that you take them down.

You should always start at the listed minimum/starting load. It's the only guaranteed safe thing.


Now, in all likelihood, those loads are perfectly safe. However, the reason they list starting loads is because there is variation in cases, primers, powders, bullets, atmospheric conditions, chambers and barrels.

In other words, what is safe in another gun, or 10,000 other guns, may not be in yours. That's why they have starting loads.

Pull them and consider it purgatory.
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Old July 14, 2012, 06:41 PM   #7
Lost Sheep
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It's a pain to do it

I would break them down. The 4.8 grains powder charge is one thing. The length is the part that scares me.

A shorter overall length means that the space inside the cartridge for the combustion to start is smaller. With the smaller space, the pressure will rise faster.

Get your calipers and measure the empty space in your cartridge

your overall length of the finished cartridge
minus
the length of your bullet
minus
the thickness of the web.

The thickness of the web can be determined by either cutting a cartridge case in half and measuring it or by subtracting the depth of the cartridge case from the length of the cartridge case.

The ratio between a cartridge length of 1.095" and 1.125" should startle you and remove all doubt over whether you should fire these rounds or disassemble them.

Keep in mind that the shape of the bullet nose makes a big difference.

Good luck. Be safe Always, all ways. Wear eye protection when you take these 150 rounds apart.

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Old July 14, 2012, 07:47 PM   #8
SecretInfantry
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Gentlemen,

I thank you all very much for the quick responces and I'll take your advice and disassemble them wearing PE when I do.

I'll reload them based strictly on Hodgdon's data for 115 GR. SPR GDHP for TG sticking to a 1.125" OAL and a minimum charge of 4.5. Thanks again.
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Old July 14, 2012, 08:41 PM   #9
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I use 4.5 of Titegroup with a 115 lead and they shoot just fine. I lower the charge to 4.0 with a 125 grainer, same results. I don't think the Berrys are much harder even with the plating so you should be OK. You need to load 20 rounds with 1 load and try them first, not 150! Work up slowly and you won't have to pull and redo 3 boxes!
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Old July 14, 2012, 10:28 PM   #10
SecretInfantry
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Thanks crowbeaner. I just finished pulling my first 50 rds and it wasn't fun...
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Old July 15, 2012, 12:29 AM   #11
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Anybody with a Hornady manual want to chime in with a recommended OAL for the 115gr XTP, and I imagine they have data for titegroup as well? He may not be that far off. If the OAL is decent he could still work up to 4.7gr and not have to pull 150 bullets that may very well be just fine.

Or do we just want to make sure the lesson sinks in? The lesson being; don't load 150 rounds of a certain load until you are done asking questions about that load!
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Old July 15, 2012, 05:56 AM   #12
GlenF
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Hornady manual

Shows a COL of 1.075 for the HP-XTP #35540.

I think I know where you are going. Good point.
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Old July 15, 2012, 07:36 AM   #13
wingman
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Quote:
First advice, never, ever, ever load 150 rounds of ANYTHING unless you've tested much smaller batches. 10, 15, 20. NEVER 150.
This is excellent advice to all new reloaders,the desire to stack the pile high with a new set up is strong, but I always advise load no more then 10 go to range with that 10 and a full box of commerical so your day is not ruined if you turned out some bad loads.
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Old July 15, 2012, 08:20 AM   #14
huntinaz
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Quote:
The second 150 rds. I loaded with these specs: Hornady .355" 115 GR XTP bullets, Winchester 9mm brass, CCI 500 small pistol primers, 4.6 - 4.7 gr of Titegroup, OAL 1.095"
Quote:
Shows a COL of 1.075 for the HP-XTP #35540.
Well there you go, thanks GlenF. So he's actually seated longer than recommended OAL for that bullet, which is the only OAL that applies here. So we aren't worried about overpressure from seating too deep. Is there any data in the Hornady manual for titegroup?

Even if there isn't, based on the Gold Dot data these loads should be fine. So in my opinion, if I was the OP, I would take note of the 50 bullets I already pulled and be sure I learned my lesson. Then I would load up 5-10 rounds/batch, increasing in increments of 0.2-0.3gr powder starting at 4.0gr and shoot those first (lowest charge to highest), looking for pressure signs. You shouldn't see any, but if you do then act accordingly. I've shot 4.7gr titegroup under a 115gr XTP and it was a really good load. I did work up to that though.
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Old July 15, 2012, 08:57 AM   #15
dwhite
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As a newbie reloader, who had you start with Titegroup? Should never start someone off with anything faster than Universal or Unique. Much more forgiving of charge variance. Not likely to double charge a case.

Break them down and start over.

Like someone else said, never load more than 50 rounds of a new load without trying it first.

All the Best,
D. White

Last edited by dwhite; July 15, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
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Old July 15, 2012, 05:12 PM   #16
SecretInfantry
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Thanks...
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