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Old August 7, 2012, 03:08 PM   #101
Dragline45
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Think about it. If they are violent criminal actors, they know that they are and they what they intend to do, and you do not..
Just as they may be prepared to act as soon as I open the door, I am just as wary of who the unexpected visitor is knocking on my door and prepared to draw and fire to defend myself if need be.

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the door is open, they are in bad breath range, you can expect them to attack tumultuously and with great speed if they are bad guy
Most doorways wont allow for more than one person to enter at a time with great speed or grace, hence the reason why it is so dangerous for police to enter houses during raids and etc... Chances are when they hear a gunshot and see their buddy in front of them go down they wont be too keen on trying to forcibly enter my house anymore. If they are, well they can still only enter one at a time unless they want to clumsily squeeze through the doorway all at once. Not to mention they have to go through a swinging screen door right before the main door, unless you keep a hand on it to keep that door open, it has alot of tension and slams shut pretty fast. 3 guys all trying to cram through a doorway to get to a guy with a gun don't stand much chance in my book.

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and there is nothing you can do until you have determined their true intent
There is plenty I can do. From the minute I get an unexpected knock on the door I am suspicious of who is there. I can grab a handgun, keep alert, be wary of who is out there, use situational awareness and be prepared to act if I need to.

I am not completely helpless without a gun either. I have been in my fair share of physical confrontations and have successfully fought off two guys alone. Punks and criminals tend to be cowards, once their buddy is out of the picture they lose all their confidence.

Last edited by Dragline45; August 7, 2012 at 03:27 PM.
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Old August 7, 2012, 04:32 PM   #102
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Quote:
Posted by Dragline45: Just as they may be prepared to act as soon as I open the door, I am just as wary of who the unexpected visitor is knocking on my door and prepared to draw and fire to defend myself if need be.
You may be "wary", but you do need to know that their intentions justify the use of deadly force before you fire, while they need only to cut you.

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Chances are when they hear a gunshot and see their buddy in front of them go down they wont be too keen on trying to forcibly enter my house anymore.
I, for one, will not bet my life on "chances are".

Nor am I deluded by the fantasy that I will be able to make anybody's "buddy in front of them go down" before being seriously injured. They have the initiative, remember?

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There is plenty I can do. From the minute I get an unexpected knock on the door I am suspicious of who is there. I can grab a handgun, keep alert, be wary of who is out there, use situational awareness and be prepared to act if I need to.
A little too late, if the door is open and they are attacking with weapons.

And if you "grab a handgun" solely on the basis of suspicion, you can reasonably expect either (1) an armed criminal to shoot or stab you before you have verified the need to shoot, or (2) a law enforcement officer to shoot you--with justification.

Go ahead. Try it, five or ten times.

I don't need to. I can simply analyze a Tueller exercise and take out the first seven yards of the charge.

The time to determine who is there and what he or she wants is while the door is still secure.
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Old August 7, 2012, 07:38 PM   #103
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I am not going to argue if's and what if's of imaginary scenarios. Point is I am confident in my ability to protect myself in that situation. There is a reason entering houses for law enforcement and military are one of the most dangerous situations they can encounter. It doesn't matter how much backup you have when going through that doorway, because it's your silhouette that appears in it and no one elses, your pretty much on your own untill you step out of the way for the next guy to come in. Funneling your targets through a small area is one of the oldest military tactics in the book.
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Old August 8, 2012, 07:18 AM   #104
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Posted by Dragline45: Point is I am confident in my ability to protect myself in that situation.
OK, do it your way. Open the door to a stranger, and bet heavily that, if his intent is to shoot or stab you on sight at bad breath range, (1) you will be able to (a) realize his intent timely, (b) react, and (c) shoot; (2) and your gunshots will magically stop him instantly, all before he injures you.

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....it's your silhouette that appears in it and no one elses, your pretty much on your own untill you step out of the way...
The question here is not whether a home invader would be at risk.
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Old August 8, 2012, 08:19 AM   #105
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What we do at our home is visually verify who is at the door. If they are known we will open the door with caution. If they he/she is unknown we try to find out what is wanted before opening the door. I as well as the wife answer the door gun in hand at our side just out of sight. You can never be to careful.
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Old August 8, 2012, 11:17 AM   #106
Dragline45
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OldMarksman, Like I said before I am not going to continue to argue over an imaginary scenario. Point is I feel I can protect myself in that situation, whether you do or do not has no bearing on me.
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Old August 8, 2012, 11:30 AM   #107
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Getting a touch circular here. If someone just wants to shoot you when you open the door, they will and you are out of luck.

If they don't shoot you immediately, perhaps you can use your skills to do whatever.

Or you can just ask - Who's there? Through a closed door.

Anymore to be said?
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Old August 8, 2012, 11:33 AM   #108
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Glen:
That's the whole key. do NOT open the door with out knowing who's there.
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Old August 8, 2012, 11:59 AM   #109
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Seems easy - doesnt' it? That's why it was said posts and posts ago.

I prefer that to being Bullet-Timing Batman or QuickDraw McGraw in the doorway.

Who's There - LandShark!

OK - door opens.

Gulp!
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Old August 8, 2012, 12:11 PM   #110
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Quote:
Posted by Glenn E. Meyer: Seems easy - doesnt' it? That's why it was said posts and posts ago.
Yep.

Quote:
Posted by Glenn E. Meyer in Post #12, on 14 January:

1. Answer the door. Use the peep hole or window.
2. Have a gun
3. Never open the door unless you are sure about the people outside
4. If it is suspicious, back away to cover the door. Call the cops. Yell that law is on the way.
5. You can get an alarm that sounds a loud siren that you can trigger. Have lights over the door, motion sensitive for the evening.
6. Large animals at your discretion.
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Old August 8, 2012, 04:55 PM   #111
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I ALWAYS answer the door weapon in hand. It was something my dad always did and I started doing. Its usually on my person or literally right next to me. Remember: Survival favors the prepared mind.
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Old August 9, 2012, 11:10 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Old Marksman
The problem, as it relates to the "someone comes a knockin' " discussion, is that should you open the door to violent criminal actors, your firearm will likely prove to be of little or no use.
Doubtful. When I choose to answer, I've already checked the person from side windows and when I open it there's still a locked storm door between myself and said person. If he then tries to pull storm door off it's hinges, I'd say that shows intent and I'll act accordingly during that time.

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Oh, and I clear my new house each and every time we enter it. Cats are not very good at telling you something's amiss.

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Originally Posted by Old Marksman
Not sure what you mean by that. We have a dog. If we did not, I suppose that we too would be vulnerable to ambush, at least to some extent, each and every time we entered.
What I mean is that if somebody chooses to be in your house hiding in a closet, cats will eventually get bored and go back to laying down wherever they were before they found out this wasn't a new playmate. So if everything looks OK, I clear the house-closets, under beds, anywhere somebody could hide.
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Old August 10, 2012, 08:30 AM   #113
OldMarksman
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Posted by Stevie-Ray: When I choose to answer, I've already checked the person from side windows and when I open it there's still a locked storm door between myself and said person.
Well, yeah, if you still have a locked door between you and the visitors, you are most probably AOK.

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So if everything looks OK, I clear the house-closets, under beds, anywhere somebody could hide.
"Clear?" You may go around with the intent looking into those places, but should someone or some two or more be inside and in a position to to ambush you to avoid capture, what would you do?
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:22 AM   #114
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A few weeks ago in our 55 plus neighborhood some folks had a tag sale which is forbidden by our rules but not actively enforced. Lots of people went through and wandered around. A few days later someone showed up with a U-Haul and emptied two apartments ( they are one story bugalo types). Just goes to show you that there are always criminals looking for opportunity and you need to be careful no matter where you live. I don't get any grief for carrying a gun or answering the door with it on my hip from the kinder gentler types who live here now, they'll be scared for awhile knowing that they are easy targets.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; August 10, 2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason: delete profanity
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:53 AM   #115
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What is a tag sale?
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Old August 10, 2012, 10:55 AM   #116
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Sounds like a yard sale variant, but maybe it's a regional term?
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Old August 10, 2012, 11:35 AM   #117
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Yep, yard sale.
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Old August 10, 2012, 11:56 AM   #118
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Ahh ok, it sounded like there was an implication that it took place inside the house vs outside of. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old August 10, 2012, 12:20 PM   #119
rgrundy
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People came to the yard sale which is outside and look the neighborhood over then decided to come back and hit some easy targets. they emptied the inside of two apartments. Usually they just come back and steal stuff off the porches like bicycles, scooters etc.
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Old August 10, 2012, 06:00 PM   #120
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What makes you think they used the yard sale to look around?
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Old August 11, 2012, 09:00 AM   #121
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This is a place where you cannot leave your garage door up very long because someone driving by may see what you have inside and come back when you are at work and take it. People are always looking for opportunity. It's part of the culture here. I came from a place where we never even locked our doors. I got hit several times when I first moved here and was warned by the sheriff what to and not to do. Everyone knows I have guns so when we go on vacation we take them and leave them in a safe place along with other valuables. It's just how it is here.
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Old August 11, 2012, 03:00 PM   #122
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Interesting. So you believe that by people not opening their garage door and not having garage sales, they could significantly reduce burglaries in the Phoenix area?
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Old August 13, 2012, 07:13 AM   #123
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Ok 45_auto lets use some common sense here please. Of course he does not think that, but by leaving your garage open and having a yard sale you at making yourself a target. You are inviting people into your house to see what you have, who you are, and if you can defend yourself physicaly, etc.. So no you cannot stop robberies but by having a yard sale/garage sale or by leaving your garage open you are increasing your chances of being burglarized by some pos.
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Old August 13, 2012, 08:19 AM   #124
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but by having a yard sale/garage sale or by leaving your garage open you are increasing your chances of being burglarized by some pos.
What do you put out in your garage sales or have in your garage to be seen from the street that you think would make someone choose your house to burglarize over your neighbor's?

If you have your collection of gold coins, or M16's, or rare S&W's mounted on the wall of your garage then I could understand your hesitation to open it. But if it contains your cars, yard tools, kid's toys and maybe a workbench and toolchest do you really believe that it's any different from the rest of the garages in your neighborhood?

What kind of stuff do you put out in yard sales? Every one I've ever seen has clothes, furniture, old electrical appliances, and assorted junk. Very little that would be interesting to a burglar. You think a burglar doesn't know that all the other houses have the same kind of junk in them?

If I was a burglar, I would look for the most prosporous, most well maintained, nicest houses (pools, porches, etc) in the neigborhood. They would be the ones with the most money and most pride in their other possesions and therefore would probably have the nicest stuff.
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Old August 13, 2012, 08:43 AM   #125
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Those places are more then likely to have some type of security at the very least a safe. If someone takes the time to take care f their place and their valuables I am sure they will have some type of protection for it. And to a thief jewelry and tools are a score. They are expensive and if you take them to the local pawn shop you can get good money for them. The previous poster was not saying he was hesitant to open his garage. He is saying that it's not wise to keep it open all day. Once again let's try to use some common sense here. Unless that's to hard for you? It's okay I understand some people are slower then others. I am done with you now.
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