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Old August 3, 2012, 04:43 PM   #76
aarondhgraham
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I bought an inexpensive camera and monitor,,,

I bought an inexpensive camera and monitor,,,
With tax it was less that $180.00.

I live in a small very old town,,,
Rental rates are cheap so we have a problem,,,
Lotsa low-life people rent here and aren't good neighbors.

Now realize I do not live my life in a constant state of alert,,,
But some things are simply not smart things to do,,,
Like open my door to a knock late in the evening.

My cat tells me when someone starts up my deck steps,,,
The motion detector turns on the front porch light,,,
That's when I touch the "view camera" button.

I never open the door at all for someone I don't know,,,
If they have legitimate business with me,,,
They should come during the daytime.

I peeved off a deputy county sheriff when I wouldn't open my door,,,
But you know what, I don't care how angry he gets,,,
He can state his business to a closed door.

He's a cop in an iffy location for crying out loud,,,
He should understand a person's reluctance to open their door.

And yes, if it's late in the evening,,,
I will have a gun in hand if/when I decide to open the door.

Uniforms are too easy to get ahold of these days.

Aarond

.
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Old August 4, 2012, 10:21 PM   #77
Ed Lawrence
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Glenn Meyers writes:
Quote:
Your side - once again, if you answer the door with a gun in your hand - you are just not thinking. ID the person. Call the law if doubtful.

It's really simple.
It's too simple and too common sensical for some people.

As you wrote, even if you open the door with a gun in your hand you are behind the power curve.

Plus depending on where you live and the laws, if you open the gun with a gun in your hand and the stranger sees it, they may report you to the police and you may find yourself having to deal with the local constabulary. Maybe it is someone who had the wrong house who will claim that you pointed the gun at them even if you didn't.

A common denominator in many home invasions is that the homeowner opened the door for a stranger or strangers and then gut rushed. Sometimes they thoughtlessly opened the door without checking who it was, and other times the person on the other side used some ruse to get them to open it.

This is why you never want to open the door unless you know that it is someone you know.

There seems to be a recurrent type of messageboard post where someone relates an incident when there was a knock at the door at a late hour and the poster grabbed their trusty gun, rushed to the door, and then flung the door open, when the whole thing could have been avoiding by having a nearby window or a peephole in the door and having the entire interaction from behind the safety of a closed and locked door.
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Old August 5, 2012, 12:09 AM   #78
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I had an incident where a good friend of mine decided that he would play a prank on me at 3am. I heard someone try turning my front knob (it was deadbolted). When I turned on the porch light (Identifying that I was home, and both doors deadbolted) I couldn't see anyone. I had my girlfriend go into the bathroom with her Ruger LC9. I then heard someone tapping on my window so at that point I released my German Sheppard out the patio door and my friend found himself pinned by my dog and me closely behind with a maglight and a Crimson Trace on his forhead... needless to say he sobered rather quickly and recieved quite a lecture... But on a positive note my girlfriend acted exactly as I expected she would.

If you can't identify who is at the door never open it. The only reason I broke that rule was due to the noises at my window. But looking back the moment I opened the patio door I left myself wide open had it been a real home invasion with more than one assailant and will never make that mistake again. The best offense is a good securty system and a SHTF plan.
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Old August 5, 2012, 12:16 AM   #79
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That sounds bad. Can you please send an officer out to my house? Someone I don't know is knocking on my door...I think that the Police are busy enough and waiting to call them until you actually know that you have a bonafide emergency would be appreciated.

That's what the gun is for. Not a good idea to be co-dependent on the Police. If you call them for every strange noise or D2D salesman, you may get to be known as one who cries wolf and then if you have a real emergency, they may not come fast enough to be able to help you.
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Old August 5, 2012, 01:02 AM   #80
Ed Lawrence
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I don't think anyone is suggesting calling the police every single time someone rings your doorbell, only if there is someone suspicious outside who doesn't leave or seems to be hanging around.
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Old August 5, 2012, 02:12 PM   #81
Edward429451
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That sounded like where Glenn was going with his when in doubt statement. If you don't know them, then there's doubt. Still not a reason to call the boys in blue. I hadn't read anything yet suggesting that they were not leaving just hanging around...that very well could change things, agree on that.

I also hear lots of folks advocating calling the police if you hear a bump in the night on the premise that it is too dangerous to clear a house by yourself so hole up in the safe room with your gun and cell and wait for the police.

That seems ludicrous to me. I'm certainly not saying that house clearing is not dangerous, or that specific circumstances could not make calling 911 a good alternative. For the most part though, having a weapon (and a gun!) should give us a certain amount of independence, lessening dependence on the police. The police are useful and warranted in perhaps 2% (arbitrary number) of calls for help. People need to man up and use what God gave them to handle their lives and environment is my point.

Not answering the door is an option, but is largely self defeatist in my mind. It's practically anti-social. The poor economy is bringing more and more people to the door and the encounter could be win-win. In the last month, because I answered the door, I reduced my trash pick up bill from 28 to 12 bucks a month. Started the paper everyday and sunday for 12 bucks a month. The young man selling paper subscriptions was scruffy looking (better call the police). By signing up with him instead of calling in an air strike (sic), I was able to save money, and help the boy. His sold subscriptions gave him some sort of bonus points which help him somehow. The point is, he was doing something honest and I was able to help him with it. If I would call the law on him, would he be encouraged to do well and continue in his path of honesty? Perhaps not. I respect kids trying to do well and like to help. Not answering the door tears us all down a bit and is counter-productive to the highly social society that we live in.

I believe that brings us full circle back to our weapons, and guns. It would be a terrible thing to give up our humanity in the name of caution. I will clear my own house, and usually answer the door and yes with a concealed gun. My local police already know that if I call, something has happened, not just, I was fearful. YMMV.
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Old August 5, 2012, 03:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Posted by Edward429451: I will clear my own house, and usually answer the door and yes with a concealed gun.
Two different issues.

He who will "clear" his house will be OK--if there's no one there. Otherwise he will have put himself in a position of great vulnerability.

When I answer my door, I always have a firearm concealed. But once I have opened the door, if he who has come a knockin' is someone who intends to do me harm, it will likely do little or no good.

Think about it: the door is open and would be difficult to re-close, the firarm is not ready to be fired, a violent criminal actor is within contact distance, and only he knows his intent.

The key is to identify the "knocker" and everyone else who might be with him while the door is still secure.
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Old August 5, 2012, 04:42 PM   #83
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I don't answer my door on Saturdays, as a certain group of religious people keep coming around. They are very nice, but I'm not drinking that flavor of cool aid, so I avoid them. As far as anyone else, I always look first through a side window. Due to children in the house, I don't keep loaded guns around. But, I have on occassion, answered the door to strangers with a butcher knife hidden behind my back, in an underhand grip. Out of sight, no one sees it. But it is right there. And at arms length, well,... I keep my knives razor sharp. The Butchers block is on the counter, on the path to the porch / door. Once the kids are grown up, and I'm older, weaker and slower, the plan is for my .41 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk Single action loaded with 210 grain JHP's to replace the knife.
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Old August 5, 2012, 05:30 PM   #84
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I don't answer the door armed. I look at who is there before opening and go from there. I have a " no soliciting" sign on the ft door and don't open for salespeople. If I don't know them we talk thru the door. I live alone and have a few guns stashed around the house but I refuse to feel the need to carry in my own home.
I had a couple of religous types wanting to convert me to their brand the other day at my door. I answered and promptly told them I was in service of the devil and wished they would leave. The look on their faces was priceless! They left rather quickly.
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Old August 5, 2012, 05:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Posted by arch308: I live alone and have a few guns stashed around the house but I refuse to feel the need to carry in my own home.
I do carry at home, because a very simple "what if" analysis that takes into count the layout of the house and the various points of ingress indicates that that is the best way to mitigate risk. I just do not like the idea of stashing guns around the house. I find it very comfortable to carry, and it obviates the need to arm and disarm myself when going out or coming in.

I do not rely on being armed when going to the door; its just that I am carrying anyway. Having the gun will likely help very little.

Intercoms and cameras are excellent tools for establishing who is at the door before opening it. If we want to admit someone we know, we do so.
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Old August 5, 2012, 07:20 PM   #86
Ed Lawrence
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The calling the police whenever someone rigns the bell is a strawman on your part.

No one here advocated it, and no one would sreiously consider calling the police whenever someone rings the bell.

if you feel the need to have a gun on you before opening the door for some people that is a sure sign that you should not be opening the door for them in the first place.

The fact is many home invasions begin with someone ringing the bell or knocking on the door and using a ruse to get you to open the door for them.

In fact, many crimes like this are avoidable if the victim is alert and doesn't play into the criminal's hands.

As far as being anti-social, you have no social obligation to open your door to strangers, especially suspicious looking ones.

If you're willing to open your door for suspicious people just so you might have the opportunity save a few bucks, there's nothing anyone can say.
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Old August 5, 2012, 08:14 PM   #87
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I never go to my door with a gun in my hand. Last year I had a knock on my front door after 2 am. It was the fire dept. they thought my house was on fire. It was the dryer vent. My daughter and just turned on the dryer.

My wife watches tv some times late at night. She sits there with the front door wide open. We have two dogs but I still wish she wouldn't do this.

My guns are all locked up in my gun locker. Over the last 30 years I have lived here there have been a few home invasions but it was drug dealers getting ripped off. Its a pretty safe neighborhood.
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Old August 6, 2012, 10:18 AM   #88
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When my doorbell rings unexpectedly, I never grab a gun. But I do have one nearby that I could get to if I needed it. I try to get a glimpse of who is there before I ever open the door to them.

I also think that a knock at the door at an unusual hour could be a burgler checking to see if anyone's home. So, I like to think that going to the door discourages possible burgleries.
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Old August 6, 2012, 10:27 AM   #89
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When someone knocks on the door at odd hours, I let the dogs answer it. Generally whoever it is realized they have the wrong address and leaves without me ever having to open the door.

Dogs or no dogs, what's wrong with just hollering "Who is it, and what do you want?" from behind the locked door?
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Old August 6, 2012, 11:44 AM   #90
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Personally I may or may not answer the door, but always take a look through the peep hole. Usually its just UPS/Fedex knocking to let me know a package is on my porch. The occasional sales person, and depending on my mood I might humor them or ignore them.

What makes this particularly interesting for me, is that I was in the door to door and direct sales business for a few years. I've encountered pretty much every response that people have given. Demeanor and appearance do go a long way when you're the person doing the knocking. I wish more solicitors understood that.
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Old August 7, 2012, 12:40 AM   #91
Dragline45
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If I am not expecting company and someone rings my doorbell you better bet I am grabbing a handgun just in case. Someone is on my property without my prior knowledge or consent, until I find out what they are doing there I am going to be somewhat cautious and keep a handgun handy.
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Old August 7, 2012, 09:17 AM   #92
zxcvbob
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If I am not expecting company and someone rings my doorbell you better bet I am grabbing a handgun just in case. Someone is on my property without my prior knowledge or consent, until I find out what they are doing there I am going to be somewhat cautious and keep a handgun handy.
And if it's the police, even if they have no business being there, they will shoot you when they see you have a gun. (then we will hear on the news how you pointed the gun at them and threatened them, with no explanation how they managed to draw and fire without getting shot if you had the drop on them) Best to figure out who it is *before* you open the door.
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Old August 7, 2012, 12:59 PM   #93
Dragline45
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And if it's the police, even if they have no business being there, they will shoot you when they see you have a gun. (then we will hear on the news how you pointed the gun at them and threatened them, with no explanation how they managed to draw and fire without getting shot if you had the drop on them) Best to figure out who it is *before* you open the door.
Your entire statement is based on assumptions, you are assuming I go to the door with a gun sitting in my hand, which I don't, and you are assuming all cops are trigger happy fools, which they generally are not.

How about another scenario, I go to the door unarmed, I am rushed by 3 thugs, I am overpowered and cannot physically defend myself, my pistol is sitting on the living room table, I am screwed.
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Old August 7, 2012, 01:03 PM   #94
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How about another scenario, I go to the door unarmed, I am rushed by 3 thugs, I am overpowered and cannot physically defend myself, my pistol is sitting on the living room table, I am screwed.
Do you really think that having a gun in hand would prevent you from being overpowered by three thugs?
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Old August 7, 2012, 01:23 PM   #95
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Answering the door armed doesn't mean that it's in your hand, and it doesn't mean that you have fear. Lots of times, I answer the door wearing shoes. Does this mean that I'm scared that I will have to run?

Extreme thinking can make anything seem idiotic. I think the nay sayers in this thread sound more scared than the armed people. You guys scared of looking bad? What will people think?

(I wont wear a gun to the door and if I felt the need to, I'd move)...ok, then what? There you are again. You can't run from life. This is more extreme than just wearing a gun.
Edward, you are so right. I am armed nearly all my waking hours, and that includes answering, or choosing not to answer, the door. Where I am right now could be construed as a bad neighborhood due to it's proximity to Detroit. It's not. Crime comes and goes in spurts, and our neighborhood has pretty much let everyone know that we will no longer tolerate it here. As such, it has been quiet for the majority of the last 10 years. It doesn't make me relax my habits one bit. Carrying is easy and comfortable, once you find your best way, so why shouldn't I at all times? I really don't care if anybody knows it or what they think if they find out. My new home is located in a rural area, where people are still quite old-fashioned, if you know what I mean. My habits don't change there, either, and in fact will be strengthened with a decent CC security system. I've already installed security lights like I have at home. Nobody that I wasn't expecting has knocked on my door there yet. Will I be armed if I choose to answer the first time I'm not expecting someone? Most likely. Will I actually answer? Depends on circumstances.

Oh, and I clear my new house each and every time we enter it. Cats are not very good at telling you something's amiss.
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Old August 7, 2012, 01:26 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrundy View Post
At night, weapon in hand and the wife answers the door with myself watching what unfolds.
Dang man, so what do you buy her for your anniversary to make up for this agreement? My wife would look me in the eye and shoot me if I told her to do that. Just sayin'...



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Old August 7, 2012, 01:58 PM   #97
OldMarksman
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Posted by Stevie-Ray: I am armed nearly all my waking hours, and that includes answering, or choosing not to answer, the door.
Not a bad idea. So am I.

Quote:
Carrying is easy and comfortable, once you find your best way, so why shouldn't I at all times?
My thoughts exactly.

The problem, as it relates to the "someone comes a knockin' " discussion, is that should you open the door to violent criminal actors, your firearm will likely prove to be of little or no use.

Quote:
Oh, and I clear my new house each and every time we enter it. Cats are not very good at telling you something's amiss.
Not sure what you mean by that. We have a dog. If we did not, I suppose that we too would be vulnerable to ambush, at least to some extent, each and every time we entered.
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Old August 7, 2012, 02:03 PM   #98
Dragline45
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Do you really think that having a gun in hand would prevent you from being overpowered by three thugs?
Absolutely
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Old August 7, 2012, 02:15 PM   #99
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Do you really think that having a gun in hand would prevent you from being overpowered by three thugs?

Oh, they might temporarily overpower me, but they'd develop some leaks in the process. And those leaks could result in them quickly running out of steam.
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Old August 7, 2012, 02:27 PM   #100
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Posted by Dragline45: Absolutely [really think that having a gun in hand would prevent you from being overpowered by three thugs].
I don't.

Think about it. If they are violent criminal actors, they know that they are and they what they intend to do, and you do not. The door is open, they are in bad breath range, you can expect them to attack tumultuously and with great speed if they are bad guys, and there is nothing you can do until you have determined their true intent.

Try this: hire a half dozen big guys with training knives to ring your door-bell, in groups of three, five or ten times. Come to the door with an airsoft gun. Sometimes they are bad guys, and sometimes not--only they know.

See how many bad guys you can shoot on each occasion before they cut you.

And see how many good guys you shoot by mistake.

Pay them only when they win, and pay them well.

I have a firearm with me when I come to the door, but I am under no illusion that it will ward off evil spirits once I have opened the door.

Kind of like trying a Tueller drill after the perps have already closed the distance. It's enough of a challenge at twenty one feet, believe me.
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