The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 13, 2012, 01:11 AM   #1
Dangerwing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 237
Cobray Leinad Derringer

I had always been intrigued by the .45LC/.410 Derringers I've seen around. It seemed like a great PDW. I mean, everyone knows that a shotgun is the best home defense weapon, yet a pistol is the most convenient. So *wahla* both a shotgun and a pistol in the same little package. And its smaller and even more convenient that "the judge".

All that being said, I was having a hard time getting myself to pay $350-$400 for a Bond Arms or American Derringer model. Charter Arms even makes one they call "The Big Boy" or something like that. But its still in the $350 range! If you want a Charter Derringer in 22LR, 45ACP or anything in between, you're looking at $150, but if you want to be able to fire .410 shotgun shells, you're going to pay at least 3 bills. Until... wait... can it be? But it's so ugly?

The Cobray Leniad series of Derringers. You can get an over/under model, a side by side model, or a single barrel. I got the over under for $125 on Gunbroker. The weapon seems sturdy enough, but it is most definitely made to be functional, not pretty. The safety is awkward to operate. The shooter must manually pull the hammer back to a half cock position while simultaneously moving the safety. If you try to move the hammer and not the safety, it won't work. If you try to move the safety and not the hammer, it wont work. They must be moved simultaneously. The safety must be ON to open the breach and load the weapon. I don't mean its a good idea for safety sake, I mean the weapon is designed in such a way that you physically cannot open the breach with the safety off. Another problem I ran into - there is no mechanical shell ejector of any kind. After the shells have been fired, no amount of beating the breach against your hand is going to expell the spent shells. I managed to find half of a broken wooden clothes pin that I could stick down the barrel and push the shells out a bit, allowing me to grab them and pull them from the breach. Not a problem for range shooting, but could be a BIG problem if you're trying to do a combat reload.

Attachment 82550

I did some research and found some good information on the net about ammo selection. Most sources were in agreement - 000 or 0000 buck is the way to go. Several comercial ammo manufactures make specific "personal defense" or "pistol" ammo. These rounds often consist of a mixture of shot, buckshot and circular disks. I could not find one single source that had better accuracy or ballistic gell penetration with the "Personal Defense" rounds than with standard buckshot. Unfortunately, .410 000 or 0000 buck can be hard to find. I went to 2 different Academy Sports stores, 2 different Walmarts, and the main AAFES PX on Ft Bliss - the closest I could find was #4 buck. 000 or 0000 will give you 4 or 5 pellets, where as the #4 buck gives you 9 much smaller pellets. Smaller pellets = less mass per pellet = less penetration. One very good ballistics gell test I found showed that 000 buck from 15 feet will give you at least 2 pellets with 12 inches of penetration. #4 buck will give you several at 6 - 8 inches, but nothing beyond that. Of course, .45LC and slugs are also possibilities, but really, if you want to fire a single bullet at your target, there are MANY better options. Using this weapon to shoot .45LC would be like using a butter knife as a screw driver. It would work if thats all you have, but other things would work much better.

So now for the fun stuff - sending lead down range. For my first shot, I lined up at the 7 yard line. Only ONE of 9 pellets hit the 12 inch by 12 inch target. I guess I knew this was going to be a short-range weapon, but I figured I should be good out to 10 yards. I was wrong. So for my 2nd shot, I moved to the 5 yard stake. 4 of 9 pellets hit the target with a pretty good spread (2 center mast-ish and 2 out towards the edge of the paper.) Finally, I moved in to the 3 yard stake. Here I got the results I was looking for. The spread was tight enough at 3 yards to make one big hole (about 5 inches in diameter) instead of several small holes. I fired several more shots at varying distances and they all confirmed what the first volly had shown.

7 yards + Hopefully the muzzle blast will scare away any attacker.
5 - 7 yards Effective pattern that would rapidly incapacitate an attacker.
5 yards and less Devestating damage

I will continue my search for 000 or 0000 and repeat the test. Hopefully the heavier shot will hold a tighter pattern and increase the effective range by a few yards.

Now lets talk recoil. I was thoroughly shocked at how LIGHT the recoil was! And I was shooting 3" heavy loads. The recoil was most definitely less than a short barrel .357. I would even say it seemed lighter than my Walther PPK/S in .380.

In summary, the Cobray Leinad Model O/U Derringer will probably be more of a novelty gun for me than anything. The quirky safety mechanism and lack of a shell ejector just makes the operation too cumbersome to really be used as a concealed carry weapon. It's close-range knockdown power without the worry of over penetration (read shooting your neighbors through the walls) makes it a decent home defence weapon, but again, I would consider it a stop-gap weapon to get me to my Remington 870, and a back up gun after that.

Thanks and have a good day!!
__________________
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be an aisle at Wal-Mart, not a government agency!

Only faithful men teach their wives to shoot.
Dangerwing is offline  
Old July 15, 2012, 04:56 PM   #2
rosewood151
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2010
Posts: 12
Combat reload and derringer are words that are mutually exclusive . If you are combat reloading.you are having a really.bad day.
rosewood151 is offline  
Old July 22, 2012, 10:57 PM   #3
Dangerwing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 237
I'm thinking youre right rosewood. I've seen trick shooters do it well, but they were using relatively high dollar derringers that eject the spent shells in a fashion similar to a double barrel shotgun. With this little guy, it ain't happening.
__________________
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be an aisle at Wal-Mart, not a government agency!

Only faithful men teach their wives to shoot.
Dangerwing is offline  
Old July 23, 2012, 12:40 AM   #4
Biff Tannen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2010
Location: Hill Valley
Posts: 263
If you're thinking of buying one, think again!

Having been a former owner of several Cobray Leinad guns (sxs, o/u, etc), I can tell you that they are the most UNSAFE guns I have ever encountered. Pins rest on the round, shoddy workmanship, and hard to use safety features make it a gun you'd be terrified to drop or have hit anything solid for fear of misfire.
And for the price, you're much better off spending a hundred bucks more and getting something you can actually use and carry.
Mine were so unsafe that I gave them to a "turn in your guns for food gift certificates" program at a local drive, as I was afraid to sell them because they are so unsafe.
Buying these guns is my biggest gun regret ever!
__________________
- BIFF TANNEN -
The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.
Biff Tannen is offline  
Old July 24, 2012, 01:32 PM   #5
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,709
just say NO!
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old July 25, 2012, 11:14 AM   #6
ZVP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2009
Posts: 917
I did some similar testing with my Cobra .38 Special Derringer and found it's sights unusable hitting 2 ft high at 7 yards. They are basiclly a close range point and shoot weapon.
Even the .38 has quite a recoil! A good two hand hold is necessary. I added the wood grips ( with thumb groove) and they greatly increased control. Still this is not a one hand gun.
I have never shot an origonal .41 and can only assume that the recoil was considerablly lower than my .38 is. Perhaps the old BP .41 was a one hand shooter? Though I much prefer the power my .38 Special has!
If you were in a card table gunfight with todays higher powered Derringers, you'd need to grasp it two handed and might loose some advantage shooting it this way.
Perhaps the .32 H&R Mag would be a better choice for one hand shooting?
Reloading is slow but the manual extractor works superbly!
Opnions?
ZVP
ZVP is offline  
Old July 25, 2012, 11:21 PM   #7
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,709
Most derringers are really belly guns ie; you poke it in their belly and fire.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 05:49 AM   #8
tranders
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2001
Location: Frankfort Indiana
Posts: 41
My Cobray single shot .410 is not a well made pistol. It sits in the gun cabinet because I am afraid to sell it to anyone in fear for their safety with this POS.

Spend the exta money on a well made derringer.
Just my .02 worth.
tranders is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08247 seconds with 7 queries