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View Poll Results: What 1911 stainless steel fordged full size with rail to get?
Taurus PT-1911 SS-RAIL 16 21.92%
Kimber Stainless TLE/RL II 14 19.18%
Or another 1911.. If so what one??? 43 58.90%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 12, 2012, 05:00 AM   #26
Master Blaster 2
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Springfield frame made in same country as Taurus. RIA is from the anti-gun Philippines.
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Old July 12, 2012, 06:08 AM   #27
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The Dan Wesson specialist can be had in stainless for close to what your looking to spend. I like Dan Wessons.
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Old July 12, 2012, 06:24 AM   #28
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All this Taurus PT1911 pooh pooh is unfounded and discriminating, the Taurus PT1911 is an in spec rendition of JMB 1911 and built with better materials then most 1911 under $1000.00 bracket,
Taurus has made the bed they lay in and their semi-auto pistols do not garner a great reputation in the industry for a reason. Nothing unfounded about it. I would also like your proof for the statement that the PT1911 uses better parts then other sub $1k 1911's.
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Old July 12, 2012, 08:36 AM   #29
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I owned a stainless Taurus 1911 for a few hours. Bought a lightly used one and took it to the range. Two hours later on my way home I stopped by the store and put another $200 with it and traded it for a used stainless S&W 1911. Best trade I ever made. I've owned a bunch of 1911's from all the mid level players including Colt, Kimber, Dan Wesson, Springfield Amory, and some of the lower end guns such as RIA. The Smith is the best I've handled and well worth the extra cost. My Kimber is the 2nd best of the examples I've owned.
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Old July 12, 2012, 09:20 AM   #30
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Tactical:
REALLY, your knowledge of the fire arm industry amazes me.

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Old July 12, 2012, 11:57 AM   #31
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Cuba, you also think that low end 1911's are superior to modern polymer framed guns like the Glock, HK, or the S&W M&P so I think I'll hold your opinion with a grain of salt. Superior accuracy maybe. Superior trigger feel most definitely. Thats about as far as I can get on that one.

Instead of being snarky, you could have decided instead to actually answer a question that I posed to you but I don't think that you probably have a good answer.
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Old July 12, 2012, 02:25 PM   #32
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Taurus is cheap junk; sorry to bust peoples chops who own one and "its been flawless" but you don't get all those "bells and whistles" at that price in the 1911 world without sacrificing quality and fitting.
Quote:
Taurus has made the bed they lay in and their semi-auto pistols do not garner a great reputation in the industry for a reason.
I am by no means a Taurus fanboy, but as mentioned I am a happy Taurus owner. Of course sacrifices will be made when you are looking at their price point. I don't think anyone here will argue the quality of Taurus being superior to that of the high end makers that you mentioned earlier (Nighthawk, Wilson, etc.). If I had $3k to spend on a 1911, I would be all over a Nighthawk T3... But I don't.

If you have had bad experiences with a Taurus firearm, then you have every right in the world to be upset. I personally haven't, and if I did I would certainly mention it. Taurus has always catered to the lower end of the spectrum in terms of pricing. But if their reputation were so bad, I don't think they would have been in business for as long as they have. People spend too much time and energy bringing up the cheap parts from Brazil argument against Taurus, but most don't know where their Springfield 1911 parts come from. The same thing can be said with the Philippines 1911's as well.

No company will spend $1,500 making a firearm and sell it for $500... It just won't happen. I paid a little over $500 for my PT1911, and I don't see how I would get double (or triple) the value with a Kimber at this time. YMMV.
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Old July 12, 2012, 04:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vyse.04
I am by no means a Taurus fanboy, but as mentioned I am a happy Taurus owner. Of course sacrifices will be made when you are looking at their price point. I don't think anyone here will argue the quality of Taurus being superior to that of the high end makers that you mentioned earlier (Nighthawk, Wilson, etc.). If I had $3k to spend on a 1911, I would be all over a Nighthawk T3... But I don't.
There are sacrifices ... and there are tricks. When Taurus first offered their 1911, IIRC it sold for $599 and they advertised that it included $500 worth of "extras." It should not take a PhD in mathematics to figure out that the only way you can sell $500 worth of bells and whistles on a gun for $600 is to put them on a $100 gun. My grandfather always said, "The worker knows the value of his tools." I figure Taurus knows what their guns are worth better than I do, so if they figure it's worth $100 ... I'll go with that.

Rock Island, on the other hand, chose to skip the bells and whistles and sell a solid, no frills 1911 backed by what is arguable the best customer support in the industry. I'll take a Rock Island over a Taurus any day.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; July 13, 2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old July 12, 2012, 09:42 PM   #34
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There are sacrifices ... and there are tricks.
In contrast to what, Kimber advertising a "match grade" barrel bushing? It's called advertising an all gun companies do it.

Quote:
It should not take a PhD in mathematics to figure out that the only way you can sell $500 worth of bells and whistles on a gun for $600 is to put than on a $100 gun.
That sounds like something that was made up on the spot and a terrible business model, selling things without a profit margin and all .

Quote:
Rock Island, on the other hand, chose to skip the bells and whistles and sell a solid, no frills 1911 backed by what is arguable the best customer support in the industry. I'll take a Rock Island over a Taurus any day.
I would too but what in the world are you talking about? Is the RIA tactical built to 1911a1 specs or does it have a rail, ambi safety, beaver tail, novak sights, etc? Is it only a frill if it is on a Taurus?
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Old July 12, 2012, 10:20 PM   #35
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Meh, I voted neither & get another... Not going into details, but BTDT and wasn't happy with either.

Personally, if I still shot .45ACP, I would get a RIA and build off of that
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Old July 12, 2012, 10:46 PM   #36
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Aguila:

When Taurus first offered their 1911, IIRC it sold for $599 and they advertised that it included $500 worth of "extras." It should not take a PhD in mathematics to figure out that the only way you can sell $500 worth of bells and whistles on a gun for $600 is to put than on a $100 gun.

I completely understand the claims made by Taurus concerning the cost for the extra feature.

Because I can remember when the only model of 1911 were the GI models, and if you wanted to have your 1911, throated, lowered and flared slide, checkered front&rear strap, dovetailed slide, fitted beaver tailed, trigger job, match grade barrel, ambi-thumb safety, extended mag catch, custom grip panels, lightened Vedeki trigger, you would spend not $500 but even up to $1000 depending on the gunsmith, Its not hard to believe that if all these upgrades are performed in house from the beginning, using CNC milling, MIM technology, and controlling the whole process, a quality 1911 can be offered at a reasonable price.

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Old July 13, 2012, 10:40 AM   #37
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Colt Rail Gun

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/Colt...ltRailGun.aspx


Discussion over!
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Old July 13, 2012, 10:45 AM   #38
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Coincidental that you would mention the Colt Rail Gun--My buddy picked up one in .22lr (condition I would say around 90%) for $350. Nice practice platform for the .45acp.
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Old July 13, 2012, 10:52 AM   #39
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Nice! Wish I could find one here locally to put on layaway....lol...I have 1 1911 of the year to purchase down. The SIG X0

I still have to get the Taurus and the Dan Wesson commander model
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Old July 13, 2012, 02:35 PM   #40
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Umarex/Colt Government 1911 .22 Rimfire Pistol are not made in the USA but Germany.
http://www.colt22rimfire.com/index.php?page=colt-1911
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Old July 13, 2012, 03:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admantium
I would too but what in the world are you talking about? Is the RIA tactical built to 1911a1 specs or does it have a rail, ambi safety, beaver tail, novak sights, etc? Is it only a frill if it is on a Taurus?
The base Rock Island is a copy of an M1911A1, with no rail. The original Taurus 1911, the one they advertised for $599 "with $500 worth of extras," was also a copy of an M1911A1, with no rail.

Taurus now sells a model with a rail. Rock Island now sells a model with a rail. I'll still take a Rock Island over a Taurus.
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Old July 13, 2012, 04:50 PM   #42
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Rock island Arms uses cast uppers and lowers. Taurus uses forged uppers and lowers. Which is better.
Not sure which is better...being made by the anti-gun country the Philipines or pro gun Brazil. They also make parts for Springfield to name one.
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Old July 13, 2012, 05:23 PM   #43
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Imbel who makes SA's frames and slides makes a quality frame and slide.
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Old July 13, 2012, 05:25 PM   #44
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Little bit off-topic but I've got to think that JMB would be "intrigued" by rails on his masterpiece (I know, get with the times and all that...)
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Old July 13, 2012, 09:59 PM   #45
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With proper training and a good flashlight

a rail on a hand gun is redundant and not really necessary; nor at what I consider normal handgun ranges is a laser - even though I own one flashlight/laser combo and two pairs of laser grips. I am a federal LEO; quarterly we go to the range or training and qualification - at least once a year we practice low light and no light training using our flashlights. The biggest mistake I've observed (based on all the firearms training I've received) is people turning their light on and leaving it on. My training has taught me to momentarily light up the target to acquire it, turn the light off and shoot.

I own at 30+ 1911s in calibers including .22 lr (complete gun and two Colt conversion units), 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Magnum, 10mm, and of course, .45 acp. I also have a few guns that are similar in operation to the 1911. Of all my 1911s only one has a rail (my two Glocks and my work issued H&K USP 2000 have rails) and I didn't buy it for the rail but for the price/value.

The only 1911 I own with a rail is a Sig Sauer GSR 5" 1911. A full-sized pistol the GSR stands for Granite State Rail (New Hampshire being the Granite State and home of Sig Sauer USA). I bought it new about 4-5 years ago for less the the $900 retail price at the time. Despite having an external extractor it is a very good rendition of JMB's design.
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Old July 13, 2012, 11:15 PM   #46
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^ I don't know why but I really enjoyed reading that...A lot.

Post some pics!
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Old July 14, 2012, 09:47 AM   #47
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The typical bias toward Taurus is alive and well in this thread!
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Old July 14, 2012, 11:29 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Blaster 2
Rock island Arms uses cast uppers and lowers. Taurus uses forged uppers and lowers. Which is better.
Rock Island uses cast frames, but their slides are machined from extruded billets. Extruding is a form of forging.

When FN came out with the .40 S&W version of the Browning Hi-Power, they changed from forged frames to investment castings because the castings were better able to stand up to the sharper impulse of the .40 S&W round. "Which is better?"
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Old July 14, 2012, 12:26 PM   #49
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The OP, specified stainless with rail, the Rock Island Armory tactical 1911 though a fine 1911, falls short of the OP's requirements, cause its not available in stainless, stay on topic, $650 PT1911 SS AR vs $1200 Kimber SS rail, so far the poll shows them neck to neck 11 to 11.

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Last edited by cuba; July 14, 2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old July 14, 2012, 12:41 PM   #50
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actually....

Quote:
The OP, specified stainless with rail, the Rock Island Armory tactical 1911 though a fine 1911, falls short of the OP's requirements, cause its not available in stainless, stay on topic, $650 PT1911 SS AR vs $1200 Kimber SS rail, so far the poll shows them neck to neck 11 to 11.
It shows "other 1911s" at 63.3% with the Kimber and Taurus tied for last place! But who's counting?
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