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Old July 9, 2012, 01:04 PM   #1
Bubba the Roach
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Pistol primers in .223

Would it be safe to use small magnum primers in .223
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Old July 9, 2012, 03:12 PM   #2
PA-Joe
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Not if they are pistol primers? They are designed for lower pressures.
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Old July 9, 2012, 04:39 PM   #3
jcwit
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No-NO and NO!

Pistol primers are not made for the pressures in a rifle cartridge.
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Old July 9, 2012, 05:16 PM   #4
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That's an exceedingly bad idea -- unless you are loading low pressure "mouse fart" loads for a bolt action rifle or a BFR revolver. (but if you were doing that, you wouldn't be asking the question)

Rifle primers typically have harder cups that will withstand more pressure AND they take a harder primer strike before they go off. Use a pistol primer in a normal rifle cartridge and you run the risk of the primer blowing out from the pressure, or a slamfire from a floating firing pin. A pistol primer also may not have enough juice to light slow-burning rifle powders (this one might not be a problem with magnum primers)
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Old July 9, 2012, 06:21 PM   #5
Bubba the Roach
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what about small rifle in .357mag loads?
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Old July 9, 2012, 06:30 PM   #6
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I've been loading small rifle primers in all of my pistol rounds for a long time. Don't go the other way though as has been pointed out.
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Old July 9, 2012, 06:43 PM   #7
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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As Hodaka said....I have also been loading sm rifle in all my pistol loads. That inlcudes 32 auto, 380 auto, 9mm, 38spl, 357 mag, and 40 sw.

Now, with that being said, I would NOT use lg rifle in lieu of lg pistol primers.
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Old July 9, 2012, 06:45 PM   #8
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I absolutely do not recommend shooting pistol primers in the .223 cartridge. Pistol primers are thinner, God knows I have had enough problems with WSR primers piercing and eating up firing pins.

Still, I am going to put out this data.

I was chronographing rounds at the range and a Bud came over and wanted to know how fast his loads were going. Guess what, he had accidentally primed his brass with CCI pistol primers. Bud said his IMR 3031 loads were ½ grain below max.

The first set of ammunition was mine, for a reference load, the data after that was with his ammunition.

We experienced no pierced primers.

I absolutely do not recommend doing this.


DPMS Rifle Mod A-15
20" 1:9 Chrome Lined barrel

69 Sierra 24.0 grains AA2520 BHA cases WSR (Brass) OAL 2.25
22-Aug-04 T = 75° F

Ave Vel = 2865
Std Dev = 15
ES = 43
Low = 2850
High = 2893
N = 6

55 FMJ 24.? grs IMR 3031 CCI Pistol Primers LC02 load 1/2 gr off max
22-Aug-04 T = 75° F

Ave Vel = 3053
Std Dev = 45
ES = 150
Low = 2990
High = 3140
N = 10

55 FMJ 24.? grs IMR 3031 CCI small rifle primers LC02 load 1/2 gr off max
22-Aug-04 T = 75° F

Ave Vel = 3114
Std Dev = 49
ES = 142
Low = 3040
High = 3182
N = 10
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Old July 9, 2012, 06:54 PM   #9
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The following was taken from exterior ballistics. One of the top sources for reloading information. If you have any question on what you should or should not do when mixing primers to different applications read the attached thread at.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...ics/primer.cfm.

.Small Rifle
Although they share the Small Pistol primer’s diameter (.175"), the Small Rifle primers must not be randomly interchanged for pistol loading. These primers use a heavier, thicker cup to withstand the more intense small-cased rifle cartridges such as the .222 and .223 Remingtons. Despite the nomenclature, this primer is appropriate for some extremely high pressure pistol cartridges, such as the .221 Fireball and the .357 Maximum. They are also appropriate for loading rifle cartridges such as the .223 Remington when using handguns such as the XP-100 or T/C Contender.
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Old July 9, 2012, 07:00 PM   #10
zxcvbob
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Quote:
what about small rifle in .357mag loads?
I do that one all the time. But I'm not saying that you should, you'll have to decide that for yourself.

BTW, do not substitute large rifle and pistol primers for each other. They are not the same size, even though they will fit.
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Old July 10, 2012, 01:15 AM   #11
chris in va
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It's my understanding small magnum pistol is the exact same thing as small rifle. Someone in another post contacted CCI about the issue.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:48 PM   #12
Nail Shooter
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If you load that ammo for an AR, you understand that you could have a slam fire when chambering a round, right?

The firing pin in an AR floats and usually hits/dents the primer when a round is merely chambered. This hit is usually not a hard enough to set the round off but with a pistol primer having a thinner cup.....


Regards,

Nail
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Old July 11, 2012, 09:56 PM   #13
DeadCenter
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Quote:
It's my understanding small magnum pistol is the exact same thing as small rifle. Someone in another post contacted CCI about the issue.
I have also seen this post. It would be nice to know if it was true as I accidentally bought a 1000 CCI small pistol magnum primers that I have no use for except to use them in place of small rifle primers if they would indeed work.
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Old July 12, 2012, 03:26 AM   #14
warningshot
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How about using Rifle primers in Rifle cases, and using Pistol primers in Pistol cases?
Wait a minute...rifle prmers...rifle cases....pistol primers...pistol cases...Dang! Rifle primers..rifle cases...Pistol...awh chucks! Let's do it again. Rifle primers...rifle cases...Pistol primers pistol....oh no. Not again.....
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Old July 12, 2012, 04:08 PM   #15
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Yes, that works too.
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Old July 12, 2012, 07:32 PM   #16
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Here is a thread on the subject of CCI 400 vs 550.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417220
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Old July 12, 2012, 07:54 PM   #17
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If you're in to gas erosion, this is probably a way to study it. How many primers do you have to pierce before it gets your firing pin? I don't know, does anyone? I didn't even have good luck with using small rifle primers in .357. Had to shoot them in my small rifle, as they wouldn't eject six at a time in a revolver. Looks like small pistol magnum primers from here on though. They are all I ever see anymore. Just not in a rifle!
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Old July 12, 2012, 10:30 PM   #18
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I would be very cautious of the claim small pistol magnum primers are the same as small rifle standard primers. For one thing, it's almost certainly not going to be the same story among different manufacturers. For example, the Remington 6½ small rifle primer is for low peak pressure rifle cartridges like the .22 Hornet, but is not for rifle cartridges with peak pressures over about 45,000 psi. That warning is on Remington's label (though not in those words; nonetheless, that is what it amounts to). So I can believe the Remington 6½ might be about like a magnum small pistol primer, given the peak pressures it deals with are about the same as the original .357 and .44 mag peak pressure specs.

Other standard small rifle primers don't have that pressure limitation warning, so it seems reasonable to expect they have stiffer cups than a Remington 6½. Are they harder than magnum pistol primers? For small primers, I'm not sure of that, but would not assume so in most instances. I know that large primer revolver cartridges that operate at rifle pressures, like the 460 S&W Magnum and the 500 S&W Magnum have cases with deeper primer pockets for large rifle primers. That is because large pistol magnum primers are not trusted to handle rifle pressures. If large pistol magnum primers cannot be trusted with those pressures, it makes sense to suppose that small pistol magnum primers can't be either, unless the maker specifically tells you otherwise.

If CCI says theirs are the same, as they told COSteve in that 2009 thread, then I expect it's true, but I would call them myself to verify that information. Anything you get on the Internet should never be taken past the "trust but verify" level of confidence. Not even if you hear it from me.
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Last edited by Unclenick; July 12, 2012 at 10:37 PM.
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