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Old July 7, 2012, 10:13 AM   #1
geetarman
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Wally world-what would you have done.

Our youngest daughter came by the house yesterday and related an incident that occurred the day before.

She moved back to Arizona last year from the DC area and she was working in the intelligence community and she is pretty aware of her surroundings.

In the DC area, she did not carry as part of her job and has not been carrying here because she did not feel the need.

She is engaged and drives a BMW. She has a G30, G27 and a Sig P226.

Anyway, she has been away from the area for a while and dropped by the Walmart at Stapely and Baseline. For you who live in the Phoenix area, you will know about that place. In short, it has changed a lot and there is a lot that goes on there. People who know, stay away from there.

She pulls in after work about 4 in the afternoon. As she walks in to the store, she sees two guys carefully watching her. As she told me, she did not know if they saw the car or her ring but they were interested. Those two were joined by a third young man.

Our daughter became concerned and started moving toward the cashier. As she was doing that, one of the young men moved to block her way. As she turned to an alternate route, another blocked her way.

Now she is fully alert and digs in her purse to grab her cell phone. She makes eye contact with one of the men and pretends to dial her phone and the three guys disappear.

She hot foots it to the register and tells the cashier she has changed her mind about shopping and requests an escort to her car. The store agrees and a security person began walking her to the car, and these same three men are at the front of the store, watching every move.

It just happens that a local police officer is at the front door in a black and white and our daughter walks up to him and tells him what is going on and the policeman gets out and walks her to her car and waits until she has it started and the doors locked.

As our daughter said she did not know if she was about to be the victim of a strong arm robbery or car jacking. She then used some of the training she received in DC to find out if she was being followed and took a round about way home.

She asked me what I would recommend she do.

She does have a CCW and she CAN shoot.

The place where she works, now will permit concealed weapons in private cars on company property. I am not sure what Walmart policy is, but I know my son is ALWAYS armed when he goes there.

I showed her a PPK that I have and told her I would give it to her to put in her purse. I told her, she would be better served with the G30 in her purse, I would not give a hoot what Walmart thought.

In short, she will not go there again and that is a positive thing. She was fully engaged in picking up on the people eyeballing her and she had the smarts to make her way to the cashier and ask for security and then engage the local police to see her safely to her car.

The point is, this situation can occur at ANY store. If you have not been in a particular store for a number of years, you do not know what changes have taken place.

She learned a valuable lesson and will not repeat the actions that could have led to real problems.

What would you folks have done differently?

For me, I have never been one to carry everyday. I am rethinking that.

When I am out, I usually have a G30 in my truck. I am really starting to think that just in the truck might be too little and too late.

I would love to hear some feedback.

Geetarman

Last edited by geetarman; July 7, 2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old July 7, 2012, 10:21 AM   #2
nikdfish
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To my mind, everyday carry is in the same vein as having a spare tire & jack in your car, or a fire extinguisher. You don't wait until you think you may need it to carry it. You carry because of the event or situation you are not expecting. Heck, if I knew for certain that a given a non-critical errand was going to involve me needing a weapon, I'd probably stay home.

BTW, every Wal-Mart I've visited in WV, NC & VA couldn't care less about concealed carry, at least there has never been any signage. I've seen more than one person open carry in Wally World, apparently without any issue.

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Old July 7, 2012, 10:41 AM   #3
skoro
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Good job

Your daughter's sharp situational awareness allowed her to get home with no trouble other than that unpleasant feeling in the pit of her stomach.
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Old July 7, 2012, 10:58 AM   #4
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She did well for the situation, but if I was her I'd start carrying every day. I'd still keep a gun in my car when I am at work and there is no reason her work should ever find out. I live in Georgia and the gun laws here are pretty friendly. Even if a place like a mall has a no gun sign it is still legal to carry. The only thing is we have to leave immediately if we are confronted about it, but that should not be an issue if one is concealing.
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Old July 7, 2012, 11:48 AM   #5
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First, as far as I know, Walmart's policy is to comply with local laws. In that case, you can carry concealed at that Walmart.

Second, carrying is a personal decision. You and your daughter will have to make that decision separately.

Third, even if she were carrying in the situation she described, her actions should be the same as those she took.

Fourth, a course in defensive pistol situations, beyond the usual CCW/CHL course might be a good idea. The 150 Course at Gunsite might work, but there are probably other shorter courses available in your area.

http://www.gunsite.com/main/course-o...ol/150-pistol/

The Scottsdale Gun Club has a number of courses, including "Ladies of Liberty." Check it out.
http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/ind...d=27&Itemid=73
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Old July 7, 2012, 12:01 PM   #6
geetarman
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Quote:
Third, even if she were carrying in the situation she described, her actions should be the same as those she took.
Yep. I agree. The one thing she was concerned about is if the three guys were to mistake her going in her purse reaching for a gun as opposed to reaching for a phone. She said it would be a sticky wicket if they produced a weapon and all she had was a phone.

That was when I told her to pack the G30 in the purse and she could be ready for either eventuality.

I am happy it turned out like it did. It could have been a lot worse.

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Old July 7, 2012, 12:07 PM   #7
rgrundy
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If she does decide to carry don't carry the gun in her purse, it may be the first thing snatched. Sounds like she did okay given the circumstances.
I was at the Baseline and Stapely Walmart yesterday with my wife after going to Glockmeister @1616 Stapely for parts. Then on to Archery Headquarters for some DART archery practice just because it's too hot to shoot outside!
These are not dangerous places but being here in the drug corridor you have no idea what is wandering around or what mood it's in. Over the last five years since we've been here I've been approached by people that zeroed in on the old couple then broke off when I squared off and put my hand under my shirt. It probably doesn't matter what Walmart she goes to, I don't think there is a truly safe place anywhere here as long as the border is out of control and people are displaced from the northern cities.
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Old July 7, 2012, 12:21 PM   #8
geetarman
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I hear you. I go to Glockmeister fairly often. Usually they have what you want and you can get after sale parts installed while you wait. I sure wish Ben Paz was still there. Anything he did not know about Glocks was not worth knowing.

As far as my daughter, I think if she needed to carry everyday, something like an IWB Kydex would work pretty well. It would be a problem for her to wear some sort of holster while dressed for business.

My son lives in Chandler and his girlfriend is skinny as a rail and is ALWAYS armed. She is usually carrying a .45 in an IWB at 5 o'clock. You would never know unless you gave her a hug.


I have one for mine that Caswells had made up for me that works well.



The Walmart in question has definitely gone to the dogs and I never venture there in daylight never mind night.

Geetarman
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Old July 7, 2012, 12:32 PM   #9
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The Wal-Mart where I live doesn't have an issue with people carrying concealed or open.
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Old July 7, 2012, 12:37 PM   #10
rgrundy
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I think all the big box stores are in trouble. Asset Protection has become a real problem there lately so there may be more of a bad element there than usual. Seems they are robbing some of these places blind and selling the stuff on eBay so you may notice the activity changes from store to store so criminal activity may show up unexpectedly. Glockmeister has moved to the little mall right next to rt 60 west of Stapely recently.
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Old July 7, 2012, 12:52 PM   #11
geetarman
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Glockmeister has moved to the little mall right next to rt 60 west of Stapely recently.
You mean they are no longer at 945 Juanita?

Geetarman
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Old July 7, 2012, 01:03 PM   #12
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If she has decided to carry, then the first thing to do is to carry. It take some getting used to, but carrying all the time becomes normal after a while.

Women have fewer options in the gun and carry world, but it's getting better and there are more and more holsters, and gear tailored to women. The cornered cat website has some good insight for women who intend to carry. But the biggest thing is finding a system that works for her and then practicing with that system. She seems to have 3 decent carry guns already, so really all she needs is the right combo of gear to make her comfortable carrying 24/7.
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Old July 7, 2012, 01:23 PM   #13
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She has a CCW permit and does not carry everyday? Why not?
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Old July 7, 2012, 04:29 PM   #14
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My 2 cents: Awareness of your surroundings in paramount, and it sounds to me like she had that covered. I can't see where she did anything wrong here. Being armed is fine, but if you're walking around in your own self-absorbed little world, chances are your weapon won't be of much help in a bad situation...most particularly those types of situations where you're taken by surprise. She had her head up and her eyes open, and that made the difference in this instance. As I've said before: Mighty hard to lose the fight if you're gone when it starts.
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Old July 7, 2012, 05:39 PM   #15
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Since she lives in the Phoenix area I strongly recommend that she take some classes. The Caswells over by Mesa Drive has some outstanding programs. Her training in security served her well. I assume she was in the Military. Unless she was assigned to a security detail her weapons training is a good starter. She needs additional work.

Since I am beginning to sound like an add for CAswells of Mesa, I need to publisher a disclaimer, I am not affiliated with Caswells other than as a customer. Their trainers and training programs are outstanding. Some of their sales personnel are not up to par and tend to sell certain brands and models which may not be appropriate for their customers needs.
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Old July 7, 2012, 09:01 PM   #16
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In my state Illinois we cant legally carry a gun. Some area's are getting bad here too. I carry a folding razor knife everywhere I go. Not much but about all we can have in this state.
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Old July 7, 2012, 09:57 PM   #17
Willie Sutton
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A point to think about:

Even if she had been armed, she did the right thing.


Use of personal arms is a last resort, not a first resort.



Willie

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Old July 7, 2012, 10:12 PM   #18
Nnobby45
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The first thing that caught my attention is that she didn't carry because she "didn't feel the need". I've never understood the philosophy, since the decision is based on what has been, or what seems to be. Many CCW people pick and choose where they carry based on their perceptions.

Quote:
She learned a valuable lesson and will not repeat the actions that could have led to real problems.
I'm glad she learned something. I hope the lesson for both of you includes the wisdom in everyday carry as part of your lifes' routine.

Last edited by Nnobby45; July 7, 2012 at 10:19 PM.
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Old July 8, 2012, 12:19 AM   #19
armoredman
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Something nice to know - her company doesn't "allow" her to keep a firearms in her vehicle - it's AZ state law.
I don't go to ANY Walmart after dark if I can avoid it, seemingly the number one place for trouble. I welcome her to AZ and wish her well.
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Old July 8, 2012, 07:04 AM   #20
geetarman
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Something nice to know - her company doesn't "allow" her to keep a firearms in her vehicle - it's AZ state law.
You are correct. What the company used to do was patrol the parking lots with dogs to sniff for powder residue. A hit would result in a call to the owner and vehicle search... They don't do that now.

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Old July 8, 2012, 07:50 AM   #21
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I'll add another voice to the "don't purse carry" chorus. Your gun should be on your person. There are various reasons for this, most of which have already been mentioned, except for the accessibility argument. In a self-defense situation it may be very difficult to get to a purse. She will also have to get a carry purse, an everyday purse simply will not work.
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Old July 8, 2012, 08:48 AM   #22
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Old cop here. Whenever you have two+ antagonists who are wolf-circling you and blocking routes of escape, and you are carrying a weapon, you had better be getting your hand on that weapon.

Sure, get a phone in your weak hand if you can- but that particular setup is often the last thing a victim sees- and it's time to drive the OODA cycle like a dragster.
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Old July 8, 2012, 09:58 AM   #23
geetarman
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Sarge,

Good advice. I really think she did a good job of being aware. I also think she reacted correctly by eyeballing one and going for the phone.

Inside the store, under those circumstances, even if she had a weapon, I am not sure what would have been proper. Certainly making sure the weapon was ready. I don't think she would have been legal displaying a weapon given the three men had not spoken to her.

A more likely scenario, in my view, would have been them following her out onto the parking lot and robbing her or carjacking her wheels.

Given what she told me, I think she acted correctly. I also think she will be changing her routine.

For me, I don't routinely carry. I think I need to revisit that. Believe it or not, a lifetime of not carrying is bearing considerable weight to my decision not to routinely carry.

I know that it only takes one incident to put me six feet under when prior planning could have prevented it.

I have to work through that.

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Old July 8, 2012, 10:22 AM   #24
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She did VERY WELL!

Does she have any fighting skills? If not, I would strongly suggest her learning some real fighting skills. Maybe a lightweight 38 would suit her carry needs if she cannot conceal her baby Glock.
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Old July 8, 2012, 01:22 PM   #25
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Purse only if it has a separate holster space for her gun and only if it is an over the shoulder strap so it can't be yanked away from her. A pistol purse allows her to reach her gun without getting tangled up in all the detritus that gathers in a person and can interfere with getting it and using it. More better to make a change to her wardrobe and carry on her person.

http://glockstore.com/index/10/

http://www.securityprousa.com/guncolepr.html
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