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Old July 22, 2012, 08:41 PM   #1
achilles00775
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Long range rifle competitions?

Okay... after some careful reading this is what I gathered are the only long-range rifle comps in the US are

ISSF (10, 50, 300 m)
Running Target ISSF (10 and 50m)
High Power (200, 300, 600 yards)
Full-bore
Benchrest
and
F-class...

Does this cover it all? (Not to confident as I keep hearing about this "Palma" stuff)
And, in your opinion-- which is the most common? I need some training, and it won't do me any good to start off in a comp that is very rare and hard to find and train in.
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:38 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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ISSF, which some of us oldtimers still call ISU, is not real common in the USA.
I don't call 10 metre (air rifle), 50 metre (.22), or even 300 metre (centerfire OFFHAND) "long range".
Likewise ISSF running target, while challenging, is not at great range (10 metre air rifle, 50 metre .22. Apparently the 100 metre centerfire running deer is long gone.) and is not often shot in the USA.

Benchrest shooting is done here and there but the standard is at 100, 200, and 300 yards. There is long range benchrest if you can find it in your area.

Fullbore is an international event supported by NRA.

Highpower is probably the most common.

F-class was designed for us codgers in Canada but has spread widely in USA.

Palma is shot at 800, 900, and 1000 yards with a .308 iron sighted rifle with sling. Regular matches are not uncommon, the big international Palma matches between the USA and the Commonwealth are held ever 4 years. You have to be sharp to make the team.

Actually, what I have seen in my modest experience is a generic midrange (200-600 yard) or long range (800-1000 yard, sometimes 1200) slowfire match with several different rifles represented on the firing line. Including Service Rifle, Match Rifle, Any Rifle, Palma Rifle, and F class divided into F-T/R and F-Open. The F class gets its own target, half as big as the others because of the use of artificial support. But everything is shot concurrently with the same time limits.

Rules for the different events are shown at
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nra-rule-books.asp

And if you scout around there, or call a live representative, you can find out what is shot in your area.
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Old July 23, 2012, 04:05 PM   #3
4EVERM-14
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Mr. Watson's post covered the question very well. I think the best choice for general rifle experience and training is NRA Conventional High Power. It involves shooting from position at distance. There are events held just about everywhere and can even be held at ranges with shorter distances with the use of reduced targets. F-class is more relaxed in that you shoot from sandbags, bi-pod or other type rest but the target is very difficult. Look into a local High Power match in your area and see if that's something of interest.
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Old July 23, 2012, 08:21 PM   #4
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To add a note to High Power- that field is/can be broken down further to John C Garand Matches, Springfield Matches, and while I don't know how common it is- there is a Military Rifle Benchrest held once a week in Amarillo, TX.
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Old July 23, 2012, 10:33 PM   #5
Jim Watson
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Yes, and there is a Sporting Rifle division in NRA Conventional, too.
I have seen one qualifying rifle at one match one time.
They try to cover the map but response is not always great.
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Old July 24, 2012, 12:09 PM   #6
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Pratical Long range matches while not as common as those listed above are growing. Though i'm not sure what the official name for them is. Things like Sniper's Hide cup, Big Steel Safari, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3L4lsu7K9M

More or less packing for the entire day and engaging targets at an unknown distance and looking for first round hits whilst shooting in different positions. So groups don't seem to be as much of a concern.
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Old July 24, 2012, 01:55 PM   #7
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This is the quote from the match director of the A.I.M. Small Miss Small Precision Rifle Challenge.

I'm proud to announce to you the 2012 "A.I.M. Small Miss Small Precision Rifle Challenge". This event will take place at the American International Marksmanship Academy in Blakely GA on November 17-18, 2012 and we're opening up registration for 80 shooters. The facility is over 4200 acres and has unlimited shooting opportunities including a UKD range with 50 E-type targets set anywhere from 300 yards to beyond 1 mile. The facility also has on site lodging in private individual log cabins that are brand new with cable tv, wireless internet, micro kitchen with fridge, bathrooms, running water, and multiple sleeping accommodations. Some cabins have multiple beds, some have single queen size beds. The lodging is limited and will be reserved for the first people to register for the match and reserve one. I'll post more information on exactly what sleeping arrangements are available and quantity. The cabins will rent for $150 per cabin for the weekend with check in anytime on Friday, November 16th. There are hotels within a 10 minute drive for anyone not taking a cabin.

The match will be broken up and shot on 4 different areas of the property with multiple target engagements at each location. There will be some run and gun, some positional shooting, some UKD, and some F-Class style shooting. Most of the CoF is already written up and the property is being prepared already. Saturday will consist of 7.5 hours (+ 1 hour lunch break for 8.5 hours total) of shooting and Sunday will run for 2.5 hours. We WILL be feeding the competitors on Saturday evening and concession trailers are on site for hot lunches during the day. This match will be new shooter friendly so if you know someone that has been wanting to try this style of shooting, this will be the perfect match. Target sizes will be generous as will the time limits. There will be minimal down time as we will have multiple events going on at once at each station.

There will be no pistol in this event.
You will need to know your rifle data out to 1450 yards if you want the bonus points.
You will also need a LRF for a few of the events.
Bring standard match gear such as hydration, rain gear, and anything else you may need. The weather should be nice here in November with moderate temperatures.

This match is going to be cash payback unless someone wants to volunteer to do a prize table (here's your chance to help Joe!). Hopefully it will be on the schedule to be a PRS match in 2013. We are going to pay back a total of $6,000.00 with the money being paid out in the following order:
1st Place $2000
2nd Place $1500
3rd Place $1000
4th Place $750
5th Place $500
6th Place $250

Registration will open at 11:00am EST August 1, 2012. Send registration requests to riflematches@gmail.com

We will have entry forms that can be completed electronically and available for download from the AIM Academy website before registration opens on August 1. Match entry fees will be $200 per competitor and that includes match t-shirt and meal on Saturday evening.
http://www.marksmanshipacademy.com/

If you have any questions you can email me or ask here.
riflematches@gmail.com

Hope to see you all in November!
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Old July 24, 2012, 04:12 PM   #8
achilles00775
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Wow. Thanks everyone!

I am always pleasantly surprised by the friendliness and quality of help in this forum!

Great to be back here again!
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:43 PM   #9
achilles00775
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Quote:
ISSF, which some of us oldtimers still call ISU, is not real common in the USA.
I don't call 10 metre (air rifle), 50 metre (.22), or even 300 metre (centerfire OFFHAND) "long range".
Likewise ISSF running target, while challenging, is not at great range (10 metre air rifle, 50 metre .22. Apparently the 100 metre centerfire running deer is long gone.) and is not often shot in the USA.

Benchrest shooting is done here and there but the standard is at 100, 200, and 300 yards. There is long range benchrest if you can find it in your area.

Fullbore is an international event supported by NRA.

Highpower is probably the most common.

F-class was designed for us codgers in Canada but has spread widely in USA.

Palma is shot at 800, 900, and 1000 yards with a .308 iron sighted rifle with sling. Regular matches are not uncommon, the big international Palma matches between the USA and the Commonwealth are held ever 4 years. You have to be sharp to make the team.

Actually, what I have seen in my modest experience is a generic midrange (200-600 yard) or long range (800-1000 yard, sometimes 1200) slowfire match with several different rifles represented on the firing line. Including Service Rifle, Match Rifle, Any Rifle, Palma Rifle, and F class divided into F-T/R and F-Open. The F class gets its own target, half as big as the others because of the use of artificial support. But everything is shot concurrently with the same time limits.

Rules for the different events are shown at
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nra-rule-books.asp

And if you scout around there, or call a live representative, you can find out what is shot in your area.
Thanks again, Will_M.

I tried looking at the NRA site at their Highpower events, and saw guns listed as M-16 and M-14.

I thought those were automatic rifles?

forgive my ignorance.

As I am just starting and have no clue about gun nomenclature, but I thought that most long range events would require guns that were the one-shot types?
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:48 PM   #10
achilles00775
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Quote:
Mr. Watson's post covered the question very well. I think the best choice for general rifle experience and training is NRA Conventional High Power. It involves shooting from position at distance. There are events held just about everywhere and can even be held at ranges with shorter distances with the use of reduced targets. F-class is more relaxed in that you shoot from sandbags, bi-pod or other type rest but the target is very difficult. Look into a local High Power match in your area and see if that's something of interest.
thanks for the post, 4EVERM-14.

One question about the events that can be held at ranges with shorter distances with the use of reduced targets.

would this be for something like a .22LR rifle, if one wanted practice shooting long range, but could only afford this as an entry gun?

I'm currently trying to decide between a rifle that would let me shoot at a distance of 800 vs. the very affordable and beginner friendly .22LR.

If the .22LR rifle can give me pretty good training results to prepare me for long-range shooting, I think I'm all for it.
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Old July 24, 2012, 10:08 PM   #11
achilles00775
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sorry. After a quick google search, I realized that those were military-issued rifles.

I would say I'm more interested in the match rifles.
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Old July 24, 2012, 10:18 PM   #12
achilles00775
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Okay, after a bit of research I've finalized on .223 REM, .308WIN or .22LR.
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Old July 24, 2012, 10:37 PM   #13
Jim Watson
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If the military team shoots an M14 or M16 in Service Rifle, you get an M1A or AR15, semiauto only and legal for an American to own... so far.

It is hard to argue against a .22. As Jeff Cooper said, "you can learn about 80% of what you need to know with a .22."
Shoot it at 50 yards to develop technique, then move out to get practice in judging the wind comparable to a centerfire at longer range.
A good .22 at 100 yards is a challenge. At 200 it is darned tough.

Service life of a .22 barrel is very long, you will not wear it out and can always go back to it for quiet economical practice.

A friend shoots F-class, at 1000 yards by choice, but he shoots a pellet gun in the basement every day and a .22 in the back yard several times a week.
He wins with the big gun, too.
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:02 PM   #14
achilles00775
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Quote:
If the military team shoots an M14 or M16 in Service Rifle, you get an M1A or AR15, semiauto only and legal for an American to own... so far.

It is hard to argue against a .22. As Jeff Cooper said, "you can learn about 80% of what you need to know with a .22."
Shoot it at 50 yards to develop technique, then move out to get practice in judging the wind comparable to a centerfire at longer range.
A good .22 at 100 yards is a challenge. At 200 it is darned tough.

Service life of a .22 barrel is very long, you will not wear it out and can always go back to it for quiet economical practice.

A friend shoots F-class, at 1000 yards by choice, but he shoots a pellet gun in the basement every day and a .22 in the back yard several times a week.
He wins with the big gun, too.
wow.. this post is gold.

And with your endorsement, I'm pretty sure I've made up my mind. The .22lr it is.

Thank you again, so much for your help.

Unfortunately it means I won't be shooting at any long comp shooting range any time soon.

Sorry that i wasted everyone's time with this posting. i just get so indecisive at times.

So I guess the only thing left to do is to find an outdoor range in South Florida somewhere... I'm pretty sure there should be plenty.

Again-- sorry to change up on you guys, so fast.

Your recommendations were great.
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:13 PM   #15
Jim Watson
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I just hope you won't get bored with a rifle that shoots inexpensive ammo with little noise, no recoil, and good accuracy.
So many Internet Nimrods require blast and kick to get the full experience.

The leading good quality sporting rifle here is the CZ 452 or 455 American.
Of course you can spend as much as you care to on a serious target .22 but the CZ will take you a long way.

Check in with my friends at Rimfire Sports, with special attention to the CMP Sporter stuff.
http://rimfireshooting.com/index.php?act=idx
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Old July 24, 2012, 11:32 PM   #16
achilles00775
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Wow, Mr. Watson. this is really great!

I was just getting ready to ask you what you would recommend, and i see you've already beat me to it!

I feel so excited.

Words can't describe my thanks!
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Old July 25, 2012, 02:44 PM   #17
4EVERM-14
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If you chose a .22LR and are seriously interested in learning the art of shooting
look at the Savage MKII FVT. It's not the prettiest rifle but comes complete with a good trigger ,Target type sights and heavy barrel. About $360. With this rifle, a spotting scope and sling you can practice position shooting on a budget. Shooting at a randomly obtained bullseye target can be fun but limits the learning curve. I suggest shooting at regulation targets at the correct distance. 50 foot Smallbore,50 yard Smallbore,100 yard Smallbore, 50 meter international. This allows you to keep score and track your progress. You can also see how you rate with others across the nation.
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Old July 25, 2012, 07:02 PM   #18
achilles00775
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Thanks, 4everm, I just happened to catch this.

do you think it's possible for someone to try (at the very most) also up to 200 yards with the .22lr?
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Old July 25, 2012, 07:13 PM   #19
Jim Watson
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Yes there is shooting with .22s up to and beyond 200 yards.
BPCR .22 Metallic Silhouette is an extremely specialized sport that shoots out to 200 metres, but there are others.
http://www.22bpcra.org/history-objective.html

I think you should get proficient at 50 and 100 yards before you start at ranges that are really long for the caliber, though.
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Old July 26, 2012, 01:40 AM   #20
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.22 will build great fundamentals.
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Old July 26, 2012, 08:50 AM   #21
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Oh boy looks like I am hooked again .BPCR
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Old July 26, 2012, 10:58 AM   #22
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Careful, that is an expensive habit; and a period type .22 single shot is just the tip of the iceberg. A good .45-70 or such is an expensive rifle and loading good ammunition for it is demanding and time consuming.
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Old July 26, 2012, 02:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
do you think it's possible for someone to try (at the very most) also up to 200 yards with the .22lr?
The SR42 Highpower target is very close to the old 200yard Smallbore target. The .22 is surprisingly accurate even at that distance. Standard velocity ammunition is more accurate. Shooting at 200 yards with a .22 is similar to a highpower rifle shooting at 1000yards. Really have to watch the wind but it's a trip trying to shoot X's.
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Old July 30, 2012, 04:23 PM   #24
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I played the small bore rifle silhouette for a few years. Still have a setup .A RUGER 77 22 WITH A 8 X 32 scope.
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Old August 14, 2012, 05:09 PM   #25
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achilles00775

Re long range rifle competition, not this "F class", I used to shoot 1000 yard competition at Camp Perry, Ohio, excluding the Nationals, the Ohio
Rifle and Pistol Association used to have regularly scheduled matches at Camp Perry. these included both The National Match Course (200, 300 and 600 yards), and 1000 yard matches fired with "service rifles", back then they were Garands and M1A's , some still fired Springfields. NRA Match Rifles were bolt actions, fired with "iron sights" or scopes, as per the match program.

Also fired NMC and Long Range competition at Quantico MCB, and Stone Bay, Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, N.C. There were regularly scheduled matches at these locations, also Cherry Point MCAS, Havelock, N.C.

Re Quantico, check with MCDEC there, or contact the base itself. Ditto for other military installations, which usually have a "Rod and Gun Club" on post. I'm no longer active in high power rifle competition, however I would assume that shooting goes on at these locations.
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