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Old July 4, 2012, 05:11 PM   #1
dave9969
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Home Defense rounds Colt AR 15

suggestions for proper home defense round in 5.56 or 223
its a colt it will eat anything I put in it.

I have been reading a while about glaser safety rounds so not too much penetration of walls etc

ideas?
Suggestions
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Old July 4, 2012, 05:17 PM   #2
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Anything but solid copper or bonded should do you just fine. Even solid copper would be a good killer, but you run into over penetration issues. One of the advantages of 5.56 in CQB is that it fragments easily. Any soft point, HPBT, or FMJ load your rifle likes is going to be equally lethal at CQB ranges and fragment better than premium hunting bullets.

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Old July 4, 2012, 05:29 PM   #3
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well I'm looking for particulars
you know
hollow point, FMJ, boat tail, 55 grain, 60,75 grain
there are just soooo many variables to just try one and see if it works
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Old July 4, 2012, 06:04 PM   #4
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Hornady TAP FPD.

The TAP is LE use only, some years back Hornady introduced the civilian version (FPD- For Personal Defense).

http://www.hornady.com/store/TAP-FPD-Bullets/

Interesting info comparing the TAP to TAP FPD:

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=283506
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Old July 4, 2012, 06:23 PM   #5
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odd they sell TAP on cheaper than dirt but then again I didnt try to buy it either
again
size, grain etc
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Old July 4, 2012, 07:03 PM   #6
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Old July 4, 2012, 08:57 PM   #7
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http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Specific recommendations with explanations and alternatives.
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Old July 4, 2012, 09:18 PM   #8
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odd, that one claims the TAP ammo has fail to fire issues with bad primer strikes. This will be an education by the time its done.
do please keep the info coming, I can not be the ONLY one wondering about this. I practice at the range with bulk ammo and I'm more or less on target but in a general range with groups of 6-8" at 100 yards, but again, this is bulk ammo reloads I purchase for range use.

I notice I didnt provide any info on the weapon.
I shoot a Colt LE/Military stamped AR 15
it has a standard 1/7 barrel with a fluted end and standard flash suppressor
no serious mods to the actual working parts, just quad rail and forward pistol grip/flashlight iron flip up sights currently no optics other than what god gave me at birth.
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Old July 4, 2012, 10:08 PM   #9
Jimro
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Then go with bulk pack American Eagle 55gr FMJ. Sometimes billed as XM193.

At any range that you have any business "defending yourself" it will do just as good as anything else out there from an AR.

But seriously, just about anything will do. There is really no "wrong" answer to your question. If it goes bang reliably in your rifle then you should feel confident in the lethality of the bullet going out the barrel.

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Old July 4, 2012, 11:24 PM   #10
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Hornady TAP or Zmax (critical defense).
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Old July 5, 2012, 10:24 AM   #11
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Get some TAP. Feel good about it.



http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/15463
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Old July 5, 2012, 10:43 AM   #12
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TAP 75gr.
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Old July 5, 2012, 01:43 PM   #13
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so a heavy round like 75gr is really what I should be looking for.
The gun is very reliable, and honestly unlikely to be my choice for home defense but I would like to have the proper round just in case. My first choice is actually a pump action Remington 870, but just in case you know, it pays to be ready.
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Old July 5, 2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZHCyif8PJg

This video covers .308, and 12 GA. They do the same thing with their .223 though.
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Old July 5, 2012, 08:47 PM   #15
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My opinion is that home defense is likely to be within 25 yards or thereabouts. While I might make a casual point of heavier expanding bullets that might double as a deer load, I figure that up close and personal, anything will probably work as well as any other. I sorta doubt that it makes much difference what is used.
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Old July 5, 2012, 11:46 PM   #16
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Art has it right. Cheap 55gr FMJs are every bit as lethal as 75gr TAP at "self defense" distances. But people seem to feel better about more expensive ammo. By the time the TAP ammo out performs 55gr FMJ you had better have a very convincing story to back up your claim of "self defense."

Of course if you are worried about litigation, you should probably find out what your local police department uses, then use that.

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Old July 6, 2012, 12:12 AM   #17
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When people talk about "good" self defense ammo I think the first concern is for the innocent people in the area. ie, something deadly that stops quickly when it hits anything. There's no doubt any bullet is lethal.

I'm not getting downrange of even pellet gun. In the right hands those things can put down a hog, and they do.
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Old July 6, 2012, 07:52 AM   #18
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As the saying goes, if you knew the gunfight you were gonna have, you'd train only for that...

Since you don't know, it makes sense to have the ammunition that's most capable of dealing with any situation.

The fact that "most" SD situations are "X", is irrelevant to me. I'll keep my SD handguns and rifles loaded with the ammo that is most versatile.

Do I regularly shoot expensive SD munitions and +P loads? Hell no- but I sure want them in my EDC should I ever need them.
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Old July 6, 2012, 03:14 PM   #19
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tobnpr,

Rifles are not pistols. FMJ from a rifle is lethal long past the ranges where pistols cease to be effective. "Defensive 5.56" should not be shot at those ranges, or it is going to be identified as "offensive" action which is not a legal action.

Remember, rifles are not pistols. Over twice the velocity and five to ten times the energy involved cause even FMJs to fragment in human tissue well beyond even Bullseye pistol ranges.

Any spitzer bullet fired from a 223 is going to try to flip around and go base first at around 2" of penetration on tissue. During this "flip" is when you see bullets break and fragment. How spectacularly they fragment is a function of remaining velocity. The heavy 75gr pills do not have a significant advantage in lethality until beyond a 100 meters. Unless you live in a serious mansion that is hard to justify as "defensive" by any definition.

Then again, maybe mall ninja lives and he has to defend the mall from international crime syndicates who want to kidnap and rape the mayor's son.... In that case I'd go with the TAP.

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Old July 6, 2012, 03:59 PM   #20
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nah, not a mall ninja here
I was actually concerned about the bullet being SO fast it went through, the intruder, the wall behind the intruder, and the next wall etc etc

The AR is not primarily a Home defense weapon in my collection but in a pinch it might be what I grab out of the safe. I have pistols for close range, assuming I can get to one. This is why I asked about home defense rounds. Not looking for how to kill ninja's enemies at 100+ yards, looking to stop the bad guy under 20 feet and not kill my family 20 feet past them in the next 2 rooms. OVER penetration was a fear, not the desired result.
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Old July 6, 2012, 04:16 PM   #21
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Well Dave, you just might have more to fear in regards to penetration with your handgun than your AR.

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Old July 6, 2012, 04:16 PM   #22
Jimro
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If that is the case look into DRT ammunition. Prefragmented core will break up faster than FMJ with solid lead core. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-268 Available for pistols as well.

Pretty much any other bullet technology out there is going to significantly penetrate barriers at "defensive" ranges if you miss, although the 40 grain "Varmint" loads much less than others. An M193 round will penetrate 12 sheetrock walls, or 12 3/4 inch pine boards. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm to reference the penetration claims.

But at over a buck a trigger pull I wouldn't shoot much DRT on a regular basis.

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Old July 6, 2012, 04:23 PM   #23
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DRT pre-fragged ammo is interesting. Never seen it before so thanks for posting.

As has been said if you're worried about penetration in a home a rifle is a terrible tool to use. Grab your pistol and 2 mags full of ammo and you'd be equally equipped, arguably better equipped for HD situations.
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Old July 6, 2012, 07:14 PM   #24
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A pistol is, of course the go to first response weapon, but my AR is also available, and actually preferred for SD.
I go back and forth on ammo choice between 50gn JHP and M193. I would consider a 55gn SP.
What I would like to get is the 50gn TSX, which is highly recommended in some studies I have read...price has held me back.
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Old July 6, 2012, 08:03 PM   #25
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I have Prvi 75gr OTM loaded in my 14.5" BCM middy. Here is a nice article about ballistic gel testing on Prvi's OTM.
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