The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 21, 2012, 10:33 PM   #1
Kyle7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1
Mosin Nagant questions

Hello, I have been the proud owner of a Russian Mosin Nagant for a little more than a year now, and I have a few questions regarding cleaning. I heard that the primers of the 7.62x54R had some sort of corrosive salt in them, and that the best way to clean the barrel was simply boil water, pour it down the barrel and swab until the patches come out clean. This coincides with the second question, I was cleaning it today, and I noticed that the laminated stock was becoming cloudy in areas water had touched, so I am curious if there is another way to clean the barrel, and if I should sand the stock with very fine paper to get the laminate finish off, or if I should take another approach to stripping and refinishing. Thank you!
Kyle7 is offline  
Old June 21, 2012, 11:12 PM   #2
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,089
I usually take the stock off and throw all the metal parts in the bath tub and soak them in the hottest water I can get. that way I never have to worry about messing up the wood. is it an aftermarket stock or factory? if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated, it should be stuffed full of cosmoline. if it's aftermarket then I have no idea how to deal with peeling laminate.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 08:14 AM   #3
jsmaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 616
Boiling hot water is not necessary, and will blemish or even remove the shellac with which these rifles are finished. Regular water is fine.

Quote:
...if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated...
There were indeed factory-laminated stocks. However, I don't think the boiling water is de-laminating the wood; rather, it's just clouding the finish.
__________________
No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.
jsmaye is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 10:27 AM   #4
troopcom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Posts: 222
I always thought you had to use boiling hot water and that Amonia was not necessary At any rate I've used boiling hot water on a couple of mausers with good results. I saw on Youtube where Sturmgewher used a spray bottle of water on a semi auto ak and he said that was sufficient as long as you get the water where the corrosive particles have touched. I really like this guys videos, very informative!

Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFKCTfKENc
troopcom is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 01:29 PM   #5
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 1,298
My suggestion from experience.

I filled an old contact lens saline bottle with 1/2 ammonia and 1/2 water. After shooting, while the barrel was still hot, I would put a patch wet (but not sopping, dripping wet) of this solution down the barrel and rub off the bolt/chamber. I then ran a dry patch to pick up the water/salts.
Any residual water dried fast b/c of the barrel heat. I then went home and and cleaned as I would regularly using Hoppe's 9. I never had a problem with rust or corrosion or de-laminated stocks.

About 3 mins extra time all told.
doofus47 is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 06:03 PM   #6
boostedtt91
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Danville, Pa
Posts: 518
i just use cheap glass cleaner that has ammonia in it. Its the best way to clean it out. Just spray it on your patches and saturate the bore with it and then clean like you would any other time
boostedtt91 is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 06:23 PM   #7
Scimmia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2011
Location: Eastern IA
Posts: 428
Quote:
i just use cheap glass cleaner that has ammonia in it. Its the best way to clean it out.
Pure water is better at dissolving salt than ammonia. It's also cheaper than glass cleaner. The ammonia can help with any copper fouling, but it would take longer than people let it work for normal cleaning.
Scimmia is offline  
Old June 22, 2012, 07:42 PM   #8
MikeG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2002
Location: Pueblo West Colorado
Posts: 212
Quote:
if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated
The Soviet Union started making laminated stocks towards the end of WWII. Usually found on carbines, some were made for M91/30s. I've got one.


As to the original post, take the action out of the stock or use windex or other milder methods.
MikeG is offline  
Old June 24, 2012, 12:25 AM   #9
the rifleer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2008
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,255
you don't even have to boil the water, just water running down the barrel and all over the bolt parts (take the bolt apart, its fairly easy), then clean like you would any other rifle with oil and patches.
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.
the rifleer is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 01:08 AM   #10
Josh Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2000
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 511
Hello,

The primers contain potassium chlorate. This deflagrates into potassium chloride, a salt. Being a salt, it is hygroscopic (attracts moisture).

What will remove table salt from a surface? Pure water, right?

Reckon Hoppes might remove it too?

Here's the thing: Lots of folks swear by soap and water. Problem being, soap is hygroscopic as well and a bunch of Dawn down the tube will rust it out surely as any salt.

When I shot corrosively-primed ammo, before I began to handload for this cartridge, I would make up some dishwater and dip ONE patch in it. I'd follow that by four or five tepid-water-soaked patches to make sure the soap was clear.

I'd then clean as normal.

I shoot out back. If you have to go to a range, just do this... and it's the same as I'd do now: Run a patch full of Hoppes or CLP or whatever down the barrel and let it soak on the drive home. The petroleum-based products won't let the metal oxidize even if it weren't cleaning it out!

Think about this: I shoot black powder. If I recall correctly, the residue is actually slightly corrosive, bonding with O2 and forming a weak acidic solution.

The best cleaning for those is just tepid, soapy water pumped through the barrel. Let dry and run some organic grease down the tube. (I use beeswax.)

A lot of folks get so uptight about a few salts that they don't stop to think about how this was handled back in the days of black powder and corrosive primers.

Usually they were just washed out in a convenient creek.

Regards,

__________________
Sights for the Mosin-Nagant

I would like to buy your Mosin-Nagant front sights. Please PM me for details.
Josh Smith is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 01:27 AM   #11
the rifleer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2008
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,255
I just run water from a hose down the barrel for about a minute and all over the bolt (taken apart), then clean and oil like any other rifle. Works great.
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.
the rifleer is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 03:50 PM   #12
Hardcase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Sunny Southern Idaho
Posts: 1,909
I clean mine the same way that I clean my black powder rifles: water-soaked patches. I run a few through the barrel, then a couple of dry patches. I'll wet a rag and scrub a bit around inside the action, then dry it off and oil like normal.

No rust, no problems.
__________________
Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae
Hardcase is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 09:00 PM   #13
DE Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Posts: 215
I usually plug the bore with a pipette bulb, pull the bolt, place barrel down in a plastic container, then fill the barrel to the chamber with hot tap water. Use a squirt bottle like for adding water to a battery. While the barrel is soaking, I run hot tap water over the bolt components and wipe them dry. Go back, drain the barrel, run a couple patches thru to dry, then do standard cleaning with Hoppes #9. I seldom get any water on the wood and if I do, I just wipe it off. All I shoot is corrosive spam can ammo...no rust problems.
DE Shooter is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 10:06 PM   #14
Chuckusaret
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 708
I have a 6" PVC pipe about 40" long capped on one end that I fill with water and soak just the gun barrel. Then clean as normal.
Chuckusaret is offline  
Old June 25, 2012, 10:54 PM   #15
Scimmia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2011
Location: Eastern IA
Posts: 428
Quote:
I clean mine the same way that I clean my black powder rifles: water-soaked patches. I run a few through the barrel, then a couple of dry patches. I'll wet a rag and scrub a bit around inside the action, then dry it off and oil like normal.

No rust, no problems.
I do the same thing. It's amazing to see the extremes some people go through because of a minute amount of salt.
Scimmia is offline  
Old July 5, 2012, 10:44 AM   #16
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 148
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Also wipe off the bolt face w/ one damp patch, dry then oil. Some of the extreme measure offered above have the likelihood of causing a lot more wear & tear than is necessary.
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old July 5, 2012, 04:53 PM   #17
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
I just use a water bottle with the squirt cap. Pull the bolt. Point the barrel at the ground. Turn the water bottle, insert it into the breach area. Squirt some water in. Wait a couple of seconds and repeat. Then I run a water soaked patch down the barrel. Then give it a few minutes to dry out some. Run dry patches till they come out dry. Follow with a lightly oiled patch. Then finish with running a dry patch to remove the excess oil. Wipe the bolt with some oil, and remove the excess. Reassemble then call it done.

Total time is about 10 minutes. If I am brushing to remove copper fouling then add another 15 to 30 minutes.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old July 5, 2012, 11:49 PM   #18
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,324
All of my milsurps are cleaned well with Hoppe's N0. 9 solvent. Well soaked patches through the bore, then a bore brush dipped in Hoppe's. Beushes dipped in the solvent to clean the bolt, and actions. I let the Hoppe's soak a bit in the bore, then run dry patches through them. Last I coat everything with a light coat of Remoil. I have shot all kinds of surplus ammo for years, and have never had a rust problem.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old July 6, 2012, 07:16 AM   #19
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
All of my milsurps are cleaned well with Hoppe's N0. 9 solvent. Well soaked patches through the bore, then a bore brush dipped in Hoppe's. Beushes dipped in the solvent to clean the bolt, and actions. I let the Hoppe's soak a bit in the bore, then run dry patches through them. Last I coat everything with a light coat of Remoil. I have shot all kinds of surplus ammo for years, and have never had a rust problem.
I concur 110%. It's all I do. Trying to convince the masses that this will work will not happen. Remember, Windex is the cure all in stopping corrosion from primers
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old July 6, 2012, 12:09 PM   #20
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,324
Actually, I used to carry a bottle of ammonia and water in my range bag to clean the bore, and wipe down the actions of my milsurps right after shooting corrosive ammo. I forgot one day that I didn't have it in the bag, and without immediate cleaning, by the time I got home all my guns had turned into a pile of rust like in an old junk yard.....NOT! That's when I started just giving them a good cleaning when I got home. In fact, on some rare occasions I couldn't get to them ASAP for a thorough cleaning so I just ran some patches well soaked in Hoppe's through the bore, and wiped down the bolt, and frame. When I did get to do the complete cleaning the next day everything was fine. No rust anywhere!
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 09:46 PM   #21
biganimal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2001
Location: south carolina
Posts: 435
I eliminated the problem by reloading everything I shoot in my milsurps
__________________
Other than That, Mrs Lincoln, How was the play?
biganimal is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 11:04 PM   #22
steidle2131
Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19
I just clean mine with Hoppes #9 when I get home. Seems to work fine. I started off using windex, but I guess I got lazy and stopped. No problems yet. But then again I've only had mine a year. I think the most important thing is if you shoot corrosive ammo, don't wait a while to clean it. Do it that day. Just my opinion.
steidle2131 is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 11:13 PM   #23
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Reckon Hoppes might remove it too?

One of the previous times this came up, a guy on Calguns ended up calling Hoppes to get the straight answer. Which was: "No"

The old formula worked fine, the current formula, not so much.

Hoppes No9 plus is formulated for Black powder, and should work fine on corrosive primers. http://www.hoppes.com/products/no9_plus.html

That being said, unless you shoot black powder, buying a special solvent just to do the same job as water you get from the tap for free, seems silly.
emcon5 is offline  
Old July 27, 2012, 11:45 PM   #24
troopcom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Posts: 222
I want to try to disolve salt in a small amount of Hoppes #9. If that works then I don't see why that's not enough to clean with after shooting corrosive ammo.
I can't remember where I heard it, but somebody said back during the war they used to pee down the barrel before cleaning it. Has anyone else ever heard of that?
troopcom is offline  
Old July 29, 2012, 10:55 AM   #25
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
I want to try to disolve salt in a small amount of Hoppes #9. If that works then I don't see why that's not enough to clean with after shooting corrosive ammo.
So the manufacturer stating that it does not remove corrosive salts is not enough for you?


The old SurplusRifle site had an excellent test of a bunch of different cleaners on how they removed salts. Thanks the the wayback machine, the PDFs of the tests are still available. Hoppes #9 is at the bottom of file 2. Here is a preview: "Probably one of the worst test strips seen with very heavy rust formation on the treatment areas."

http://web.archive.org/web/200611130...ittlesalt1.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt2.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt3.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt4.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt5.pdf


But hey, it is your rifle, if you want to use Hoppes #9, knock yourself out.
emcon5 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12696 seconds with 9 queries