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Old June 28, 2012, 03:35 PM   #1
Hardcase
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Guns of the Confederacy

An interesting article popped up in my daily deluge of email from Gun Digest:

http://www.gundigest.com/article/joh...b-and-his-guns

It's a little excessively peppered with "Johnny Reb", but a good read, nonetheless.
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Old June 28, 2012, 11:12 PM   #2
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That was a joy to read even with all the "Johnny Rebs".
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Old June 29, 2012, 10:27 AM   #3
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I wanted to use JHNNYREB as my license plate, but it wouldn't look right on a cab-unit design, streamlined EuroCargo semitractor.

Now maybe if I had a Peterbilt or Kenworth

PS- The Confederacy never built any Model 1858s with brass frames. Only a few copies of 1851s were made using bronze, and these were not too combat-sturdy.
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Old June 29, 2012, 03:30 PM   #4
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I believe they were brass framed. And even at the end of the war, the Rebs had to turn to wrought iron, because they couldn't make any more brass. So the last guns the Rebs made were iron, when they ran out of brass
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Old June 29, 2012, 05:07 PM   #5
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Guns in the day including Colt's were made from wrought iron. The brass used in Confederate guns was red brass or gunmetal which was bronze with a high copper content. Colt nor Remington made any brass framed guns.
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Old June 30, 2012, 09:45 PM   #6
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Certainly a good read. I googled a few guns mentioned in that article, Kerr revolver look pretty neat.
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Old July 11, 2012, 02:00 PM   #7
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Wait. You people are saying Rem never made brass guns? I had heard that Rem made brass guns and they were more much common than non-brass to the extent that non-brass Rem 58s were held in high value.

Have I been taught wrong since I was little, or am I missing something?
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Old July 11, 2012, 03:00 PM   #8
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Well, I don't know about never, but the 1858 was a steel-framed gun. They weren't made of brass because they didn't need to be - the North had no particular shortage of iron, so there was no need to substitute "inferior" metal.

One of the easiest ways to answer the question is to compare the number of original brass framed Remingtons to the number of original steel framed Remingtons. If brassers were common, you'd see them turn up here and there. Since they don't, it seems safe to say that there either weren't any made or there were so few made as to not really matter.

It seems to me that the whole brass-framed guns, the so-called "Confederate" guns, are, for the most part, an Italian invention. It's my opinion that they saw the Griswold and Gunnison as a copy of the Colt Navy and ran with the idea that anything brass framed was Confederate. There were plenty of steel and iron framed Confederate revolvers - and plenty of them were Colts. Sam was making revolvers well before the war started.
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Old July 11, 2012, 06:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Wait. You people are saying Rem never made brass guns? I had heard that Rem made brass guns and they were more much common than non-brass to the extent that non-brass Rem 58s were held in high value.

Have I been taught wrong since I was little, or am I missing something?
You were taught wrong. There were no brass Remingtons or Remington clones. Zero, zilch, nada, none.


Quote:
It seems to me that the whole brass-framed guns, the so-called "Confederate" guns, are, for the most part, an Italian invention. It's my opinion that they saw the Griswold and Gunnison as a copy of the Colt Navy and ran with the idea that anything brass framed was Confederate.

There were a few companies in the South that made brass framed .36 caliber revolvers but quantities were usually very few. No brass frames were made in .44 caliber. The Italians, especially Pietta count on nobody knowing or caring enough about history. Uberti started out with brass framed guns but are more history conscious now. Some of the guns Pietta makes that actually existed like Police models are historically incorrect using the wrong size frames and number of chambers. The Colt 51 Navy was never offered in the Army caliber of .44

Last edited by Hawg; July 11, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old July 18, 2012, 09:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Hawg Haggen wrote:
You were taught wrong. There were no brass Remingtons or Remington clones. Zero, zilch, nada, none.

No, "you were taught wrong" on how to use proper specifics as to Remington revolver model when you make such a wide sweeping incorrect statement as that.

Your above quote is not an accurate statement as you wrote it, since you did not specify an "1858" Remington. So either your information is incorrect or you were lacking in not giving specifics in that particular statement of yours as to which percussion model Remington. At any rate, that particular above sentence as you wrote it is totally incorrect.

Remington did in fact manufacture their percussion .31 caliber spur trigger pocket revolver nicknamed "Baby Remington" with a brass frame as well as a steel frame. That makes a brass frame Remington a historical fact.



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Last edited by Bill Akins; July 19, 2012 at 12:08 AM.
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Old July 18, 2012, 10:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Hawg haggen wrote:
Guns in the day including Colt's were made from wrought iron. The brass used in Confederate guns was red brass or gunmetal which was bronze with a high copper content. Colt nor Remington made any brass framed guns.
Not true. Again you fail to specify the exact model of Remington you are writing about and neglect to recognize the historical fact of the .31 caliber, spur trigger, percussion "Baby Remington" revolver that Remington manufactured both in brass frame and steel frame versions.

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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; July 18, 2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old July 18, 2012, 10:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Not true. Again you fail to specify the exact model of Remington you are writing about and neglect to recognize the historical fact of the .31 caliber, spur trigger, percussion "Baby Remington" revolver that Remington manufactured both in brass frame and steel frame versions.
Yes Bill you are correct. A few of the first .31 POCKET pistols did have brass frames but they were quickly discontinued. I stand corrected on that point but the discussion was about full size guns.
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Old July 18, 2012, 10:46 PM   #13
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Hello, everyone. I have read where the southern gunmakers tried twisting iron bar stock in an efffort to strengthen it for revolver cylinders, due to the scarcity of quality steel. This didn't work, as there were reports of burst cylinders. Has anyone came across such a twisted cylinder revolver? I know some forging flow patterns become visible on older firearms..I wonder if it would be on these?
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Old July 19, 2012, 12:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Hawg haggen wrote:
Yes Bill you are correct. A few of the first .31 POCKET pistols did have brass frames but they were quickly discontinued. I stand corrected on that point but the discussion was about full size guns.
From the very first post and up to post #5 (which was yours), in which you wrote... "Colt nor Remington made any brass frame guns"....there was not any mention that full size guns were the only specific topic of the discussion. In fact in the entire thread up to this point, nowhere was it stipulated nor mentioned that full size guns were the exclusive topic of the discussion.


We only know what you write. Not what you're thinking.



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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; July 19, 2012 at 12:15 AM.
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Old July 19, 2012, 12:14 AM   #15
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Whatever Bill. You made your point. It's all good.
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Old July 19, 2012, 11:13 PM   #16
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I just read and let the history buffs have at it. I've had a lot of fun over the years with some find not so pc pistols though. Thinks Hardcase for the post. It's a good read.
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Old July 25, 2012, 03:55 AM   #17
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Good article.

I have read the article and enjoyed it, despite the excessive colloqiuailisms. There was one brass frame revolver that saw regular Confederate service, the Spiller and Burr revolver. It shared many visual similarities with the '58 Remington. There is a good image and description of the revolver in Echoes of Glory; Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy.
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Old July 25, 2012, 09:21 AM   #18
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Actually, the Spiller & Burr .36 was a copy of the Whitney .36. The Whitney had an iron frame.


Original Spiller & Burr
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Old July 25, 2012, 11:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38splfan
There was one brass frame revolver that saw regular Confederate service, the Spiller and Burr revolver. It shared many visual similarities with the '58 Remington. There is a good image and description of the revolver in Echoes of Glory; Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy.
There were only around 1450 Spiller and Burr revolvers made of the 15,000 that the Confederate Government ordered. By contrast, there were approximately 3700 Griswold and Gunnison revolvers made before the North burned the factory in 1864. In addition, around 2400 iron framed Leech & Rigdon, Rigdon and Ansley, and Augusta model revolvers were made.
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Old July 28, 2012, 04:04 PM   #20
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@ Pohill

Pohill,

Thanks for the correction/ clarification. I appreciate learning new things and stand quite corrected.
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Old July 28, 2012, 07:00 PM   #21
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The Spiller & Burr .36 and Whitney .36 are similiar to the Remington-Beals .36.
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Old July 28, 2012, 07:26 PM   #22
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Not similar enough to be mistaken for one.
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Old July 28, 2012, 09:23 PM   #23
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Still similiar...

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