The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 27, 2012, 06:39 PM   #1
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,281
General AR question- Multi use

Can I tune an AR for long range 300-500yd accuracy and still have reasonable weight, reliability and speed for 3-gun etc..?
I have been buying guns like candy and I want to be able to first off slow down and second off make the purchase count. .223/5.56 is probably the cheapest centerfire I can shoot.
Will I save money building -vs- buying a pre configured model. Any sugestions?
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old June 27, 2012, 09:36 PM   #2
10-96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Tx Panhandle Territory
Posts: 3,274
Wow, I would have thought this thread would have had tons of recommendations by now.

Personally, I'm a purist, I like simple and uncluttered firearms. Now, I don't shoot 3-gun, but I do have an idea (and it may be way off base). Pieces, parts, doo-dads don't make you a better rifleman. Start with a basic upper and either a regular A-2 stock or ACE stock. A long sight radius is better if you're using iron sights (peeps), so 18" to 20" GI contour isn't too bad. Go with a National Match front sight post, at least a RRA 2-Stage match trigger, and stick to that.

Later on, adapt a free-float forearm- and keep your sling attached to it and not the bbl. Then, upgrade that RRA trigger when you learn the rifle well enough to recognize what it truely does for ya.

Stop hitting the gunshops and interwebs to buy stuff and dedicate more time to range time. If you take the time to get honestly good with your basic rifle, then you'll better understand add-ons vs. mall ninja crap.

And lastly, start having fun again. You're buying stuff and stressing way too much which sucks the fun out your sport more and more each time you pull out your credit card. AR's are very adaptable. Pick up a 250-300 lower and something like a $500 upper from some place like RGuns and start from there.
__________________
Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day)

I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.
10-96 is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 05:33 AM   #3
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,281
Your recomending a build? I dont think I found the proper Rguns website, this was hunting land not a storefront.
My LGS has Stag lowers for 135, Natchezss has pretty much everything else. I am not an AR guy some im still learning what matches. It seams like it will cost much more by the prices I am finding. I can find some nice looking AR's pre built for less. SIG- $1300and up, S&W $750 and up.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 07:18 AM   #4
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,871
300-500yd is within the range of any 14.5"+ AR.

Is your goal to shoot tiny bug hole groups or just ring steel?

A low cost Del-tron kit should get 2-3moa with surplus ammo.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 07:34 AM   #5
lmccrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Red Rock. TX
Posts: 801
3-gun? For scoped division, 18" rifle-length gas, 1:8" twist, Wylde chamber. For irons, same but 20" and put the front sight at the muzzle.

2-stage triggers are less common in 3-gun. A good trigger, yes, but not 2-stage. JP and Geisselle. AR Gold has some followers. Those are in the $200-$300 range and you can save that purchase until later, and as was said, wait until you can appreciate it.

Quote:
Pieces, parts, doo-dads don't make you a better rifleman.
Correct. But some things make for better speed and accuracy, and those things win matches. You do not need a fancy stock or forearm, but free-float is good.

Decide if 3-gun is the primary use and if so, head down that path. You will end up with a good general-use rifle as well.
lmccrock is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 08:22 AM   #6
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,281
Quote:
Is your goal to shoot tiny bug hole groups or just ring steel?
My goal is to shoot as well as the rifle is capable. I think (correct me if im wrong) most competitions that you can use an AR at distance is ringing steel. So being able to consitantly hit a 4" group at 300+ would be my initial goal.
Quote:
3-gun? For scoped division, 18" rifle-length gas, 1:8" twist, Wylde chamber. For irons, same but 20" and put the front sight at the muzzle.
Should I look toward building a rig or just ots Sig or something? I like building but if it will cost me more than buying complete with little advantage Ill just buy. To be honsest I dont really know what I want.

**If I buy prebuilt what do I need to look at so as not to limit myself in the future? I dont want a rifle that will not accept parts from other manufacturers.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 08:39 AM   #7
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
**If I buy prebuilt what do I need to look at so as not to limit myself in the future? I dont want a rifle that will not accept parts from other manufacturers.
As long as you get a standard AR lower, any 5.56 sized upper will fit on it and all the parts will interchange, unless you get an older Colt lower that has larger than spec pins. (Serial number less than 57,000).

Go DI rather than piston if you want the greatest level of parts interchangeablility.
__________________
I am no longer participating in gun forums.

Good luck.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 08:50 AM   #8
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,281
Quote:
Go DI rather than piston if you want the greatest level of parts interchangeability
I will look toward DI. Why go piston over DI other than interchangeability? Piston more accurate, smoother, less recoil?
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 10:01 AM   #9
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Why go piston over DI other than interchangeability? Piston more accurate, smoother, less recoil?
There is debate on this.

My opinion:

Advantages:

1. Does not blow lubrication out of the action. (Useful for high volumes of full auto fire)
2. Easier to clean the BCG (if you want a spotless gun)
3. Over the Beach Capability (You can fire when coming out of water quicker, no need to drain the gas tube, barrel still has to drain though.)
4. Can change barrel length without needing to "retune". (Fixed relationship between piston/expansion chamber)
5. Very short barrels (less than 10.5 in, more pressure to work the system due to #4)

Disadvantages:

1. Adds parts and weight
2. Parts are not standard, all designs are different
3. You still have to clean the piston & BCG.
4. There is a theoretical loss in accuracy because of a larger reciprocal mass. (Most people aren't good enough shots to notice)
5. Unknown issues may crop up that noone has foreseen due to the lack of long term, large sample size usage. (DI has been used for 50 years, pistons in ARs less than 10, some designs may only have a few hundred examples even produced and only the HK 416 has ever been used in combat)

You just have to pick your compromise of advantages/disadvantages and run with it.

The DI will be cheaper and easier to buy and maintain.
__________________
I am no longer participating in gun forums.

Good luck.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 03:34 PM   #10
K1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2011
Posts: 158
Almost any good AR off the rack will hold 1.5 to 2 MOA, and is typically better than that with he right ammo. Even at 2 MOA, that's about a 10 inch group atb500 yards. Is that good enough for you? I rarely shoot past 300 yards, so any old AR will do for me.
K1500 is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 04:57 PM   #11
FlyerXD
Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2012
Posts: 31
I would recommend looking at the Colt LE6920MPR you get a proven quality rifle for around $1200.00 that comes with all the Magpul goodies and Troy rails.I was looking at many different brands but the priceswere too close to the Colt's price. Pretty much you can't go wrong with a Colt,Daniel Defense,or Bravo Company.
__________________
When a 12 gauge speaks people listen
FlyerXD is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 05:34 PM   #12
10-96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Tx Panhandle Territory
Posts: 3,274
No, I'm not recommending a build- I consider that as assembling a rifle from it's most basic sub-parts. For the prices of things I've seen lately, I personally feel that putting a pre-assembled upper onto an existing total lower is a very cost efficient way to go.

I still stand by staying as basic as possible, master that- and then move up as needed. Why go with a ton of add-ons if you're kind of stuck on a buying spree and haven't mastered the basic rifle enough to know what add-on does you the most good?

http://www.rguns.net/

Heads up- these folks have kind of a bad rep as far as the employees being jerks and such on the innerwebs. But they got my upper and parts to me in less than 5 or 6 days, the fit/finish/quality/overall appearance and function left me 100% pleased. I bought a 20" flat top upper with the intent to put on a wood stock and use as a casual plinker. I sighted in and broke in with 50 rounds, and due to ammo/reload problems with my M1A I was kind of forced to use the RGuns upper in a local high power match. Missed first place by 10 points- that's all. The rifle ran with zero problems.
__________________
Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day)

I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.
10-96 is offline  
Old June 30, 2012, 06:20 AM   #13
lmccrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Red Rock. TX
Posts: 801
Quote:
Should I look toward building a rig or just ots Sig or something? I like building but if it will cost me more than buying complete with little advantage Ill just buy. To be honsest I dont really know what I want.
You said 3-gun, I filled in the blanks. Pretty much anything will work to start. Find out about distances at your local 3-gun matches. Some are pretty much pistol matches shot with a carbine (pure speed - shorter barrel and iron sights). Some shoot to 500 yards (18-20" barrel and scope).

Quote:
**If I buy prebuilt what do I need to look at so as not to limit myself in the future? I dont want a rifle that will not accept parts from other manufacturers.
Except for the aforementioned Colts, pretty much anything DI and 223/5.56 will interchange. Step up to 308 and all bets are off. Note that barrels shorter than 16" will have a barrel device permanently attached so it would be harder to swap barrels and handguards, so you probably want at least 16".

I will make a suggestion. First AR? Buy off-the-shelf so you get full factory warranty and full support. Learn the system without having to debug a bunch of parts from different vendors.
lmccrock is offline  
Old June 30, 2012, 08:32 AM   #14
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
I will make a suggestion. First AR? Buy off-the-shelf so you get full factory warranty and full support. Learn the system without having to debug a bunch of parts from different vendors.
+100

And if you get it, and don't like it, it will be much easier to sell than a home built Frankenrifle.
__________________
I am no longer participating in gun forums.

Good luck.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10275 seconds with 7 queries