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Old July 2, 2012, 11:09 PM   #51
TX_QtPi
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Maybe some more research needs to be done?
Is failure model specific? I have a pt 24 7 pro cds and have never had a problem with it. It's well broken in and isn't a safe queen. I actually trust it enough to use as one of my carry guns...
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Old July 2, 2012, 11:29 PM   #52
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I'll always spend a bit extra for a brand that's more recognizable with a more proven record.

It's why I'll never own a Kia or a brand-X fridge or a $10 wal-mart pocket knife or a Taurus firearm.

Some folks will, I won't. Which is fine. Go capitalism!

That probably means I'm the much-dreaded brand snob, but that's okay. And not necessarily true. Check out my two Rugers. Inexpensive, unrefined, rugged as anything, never a failure to be found!
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Old July 3, 2012, 10:00 AM   #53
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Got a Taurus 85 and it would bind-up. Took it back and got a J Frame. Had a Total Titanium .45 Colt from Taurus and it work well. 50/50 - about the same chance I'd get another Taurus.
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Old July 3, 2012, 03:33 PM   #54
Coltman 77
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Quote:
I see a lot of Taurus bashing going on in forums, and that's not to say that a certain amount isn't justified... I've never owned a Taurus, haven't even shot one before. However the amount that goes on (as others have said) seems suspiciously high for a company that's still in business. As a prospective buyer, the amount of worthless noise surrounding the brand is staggering, and more than a little annoying. But, is it justified?
Yes, it's justified.

I've been a member of several gun forums for the last few years and I've read too many tales of woe from unhappy Taurus customers not to believe them.

Wait, save a few more dollars and purchase a handgun from a manufacturer with a good reputation for quality.

Good luck.
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Old July 3, 2012, 04:57 PM   #55
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I can only go by 'personal' experience and my Tauri products have been reliable out of the box (PT-22, PT-25, PT-92 and 24/7 OSS). Granted the mouse guns have both seen just a cumulative total of 5-700 rounds and the .22 likes HV ammo (.25acp about breaks me). However, the 9mm workhorses have seen exponentially more and eaten anything I fed them. I do not judge a potential procurement of anything unless I have direct feedback via a gun rental/range or friends of whom I can try out various different models of which I am considering. I have heard people rant on literally every gun vendor out there (Taurus included) but I generally reach the conclusion that there are lemons in every lot of every product made by man across the board. Not to advocate other boards, but go to any vendor forum and you will find people complaining about bad experiences (actual 'first-hand' accounts). Just to reiterate, this is not just a firearms related issue/proclivity but also washers, dryers, cell phones, tablets etc...

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Old July 3, 2012, 05:33 PM   #56
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I have two, both function perfectly,come in very handy whenever my anger management classes tick me off.
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Old July 3, 2012, 06:24 PM   #57
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Well, no doubt the internet drastically amplifies small rates of real failures as well as just plain rumors with firearms.

Take the Beretta 92. From what I've read, Beretta has sold over 1 million of these pistols to the US military since it was adopted.

In the beginning, there was a relative weakness in the locking block design that could cause it to fail when you ran *lots* of +P rounds through it... earlier than it might be expected to (no block design will last forever).

There were apparently some failures with the slide flying off, and at least one person was hit with a slide, maybe more. Beretta upgraded the design long ago though (maybe 20 years ago?), and as far as one can tell, it may have been a very small number of actual incident of flying slides in the first place. This is one of the most prolific handguns in history.

Yet, until this day, "experts" on the internet will tell you to avoid buying a Beretta 92 because the locking block will break and they are dangerous.
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Old July 3, 2012, 07:27 PM   #58
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CarbineCaleb,

Great example as that is one of the most 'notorious' and recent cases of an actual problem that was 'over-embellished' (IMO) beyond belief...Primarily by critics of the basic, fundamental U.S. decision to transition away from JMB's ingenious 1911 or likewise similar critics that felt SIG should have received the contract etc...By the way, I think both of those camps have a certain and undeniable degree of validity to their respective arguments. Nevertheless, the adoption of the 92 has become the legend of 'Internet Folklore' and is the subject of controversy now some thirty years later.

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Old July 3, 2012, 07:54 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbineCaleb View Post
Well, no doubt the internet drastically amplifies small rates of real failures as well as just plain rumors with firearms.

Take the Beretta 92. From what I've read, Beretta has sold over 1 million of these pistols to the US military since it was adopted.

In the beginning, there was a relative weakness in the locking block design that could cause it to fail when you ran *lots* of +P rounds through it... earlier than it might be expected to (no block design will last forever).

There were apparently some failures with the slide flying off, and at least one person was hit with a slide, maybe more. Beretta upgraded the design long ago though (maybe 20 years ago?), and as far as one can tell, it may have been a very small number of actual incident of flying slides in the first place. This is one of the most prolific handguns in history.

Yet, until this day, "experts" on the internet will tell you to avoid buying a Beretta 92 because the locking block will break and they are dangerous.
Even though my post was anti-Taurus (which I stand by) this is undeniably true.
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Old July 3, 2012, 10:21 PM   #60
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I have owned 2 Taurus guns one was a 357 revolver the second was a PT 1911. I Had to send the 1911 back twice, once because failure to go to battery half the time. The second time while firing the gun the safety falls off and every time I fired the gun I was hit in the face by hot powder residue. The revolver I had no problems with other than I didn't like a 6" barrel. I have heard both good and bad things about the company and there customer service. I don't go around bashing them I just don't but them.
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Old July 4, 2012, 03:36 PM   #61
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PT92

Wish I had my PT92 back. I traded it off after reading too much Taurus bashing and listening to "know it all" friends. It was one of my worst ideas concerning guns. I have had four 9mm pistols since trading it off and none have been as accurate or trouble-free, but I didn't spend a $1000 on any of them. Maybe that is the problem. The only 9mm I have now is a Ruger P95 and IMO it is an insult to a company that is supposed to have a reputation for working guns. But then I have never liked plastic guns since I quit playing with water guns.That is why I won't buy Glock. No offense to happy Glocksters. Whatever does it for you.
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Old July 4, 2012, 03:55 PM   #62
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Quote:
KMAX

PT92
Wish I had my PT92 back. I traded it off after reading too much Taurus bashing and listening to "know it all" friends. It was one of my worst ideas concerning guns.
That hurts (the older you get the less vulnerable you become...we live and learn as 'they' say...).

Quote:
The only 9mm I have now is a Ruger P95 and IMO it is an insult to a company that is supposed to have a reputation for working guns. But then I have never liked plastic guns since I quit playing with water guns.
I actually love my P95 (it's a freaking 'tank' of a gun if you will)--Won't win any beauty contests or IPSC events, but I think I could fire 5K rounds, drop it on concrete etc. and she would not skip-a-beat.

Quote:
That is why I won't buy Glock. No offense to happy Glocksters.
Never owned one but have shot many. Not averse to them and I have one on my bucket list....

Quote:
Whatever does it for you.
Therein lies the key to the reason why we need not 'argue' about gun tastes.
My gem may be your 'safe-queen' and vice versa. Provided the debate is mutually respectful, so be it!

-Cheers
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Old July 5, 2012, 04:43 AM   #63
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I have a Taurs 85. My wife and I have only put maybe 300 rounds through it, but it has worked flawlessy thus far. Double action doesn't compare to a Ruger or S@W, but the single action is sweet.
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Old July 5, 2012, 10:29 PM   #64
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I have a pt111 pro. have had no more malfunctions with it than with my beretta and it has been very few. One or two out of 500 id say. All were ammo related I shoot lead reloads.
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Old July 5, 2012, 11:27 PM   #65
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PT1911

My PT1911 was just the second center fire handgun I owned and blissfully unaware of any reviews or on-line forums I put a Pachmeyer on it and shot a couple of hundred rounds thru it without a problem.

2009-2010 I suffered a lack of ammo availability at my usual places, and pretty much shot anything in the PT1911 I could lay hands on or order online. I didn't know better. The Taurus just worked no matter what ammo I put in it. Around that time I joined this forum and was dismayed to learn what a piece of junk my Taurus was. I figured I'd blast off the rest of the ammo I'd bought and then sell the poor thing. Get a "real" 1911 since the Taurus was such a terrible pistol. Somehow, all the nasty junky ammo just shot without a glitch. I'd get mad, a re-load the mag, jerk the trigger over and over daring the thing to mis-feed, have a part fall off or whatever I read must happen eventually. It never did.

If you're thinking about a purchase I'd advise you to spend the extra $ and get the Kimber, Colt, Springfield, whatever. You won't have the second thoughts or have to explain the decision to your gun-buddies or a forum, like I have. For now, I'm stuck with this damn PT1911 and as soon as I have a glitch I'm going to get rid of it! In the meantime, it seems to be decently accurate when I slow down and really try to shoot well.

Resale value is a real concern if you make a purchase with the thought you'll sell or trade the gun someday. Not an issue for me.
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Old July 5, 2012, 11:28 PM   #66
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I've owned two of their auto pistols and 4 revolvers. One of the pistols (PT-99) wore out quickly and was repaired for free. One of the 44 mag revolvers had a hitch which made shooting DA impossible and the other a 22 mag I never shot and returned to the dealer because it locked up then wouldn't index. So it's about 50%. The PT 945 was a good pistol though and I shot it alot. Some good ones get through production.
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Old July 15, 2012, 08:58 AM   #67
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Hello all, as to the Taurus brand of handguns. Well there are several in this family, let me list them for you and problems with each.
PT145 None
85UL None
85 None
941 None
82(older) None
605 None
460(45colt) None

I guess you could say that Taurus makes a pretty good SD/Trail gun. As a retired LEO, the 85UL was my backup to the SA loaded 1911 on my hip. I have seen bad reports of Taurus weapons, maybe it was just conjector on there part and what they have heard.
Be safe and careful.
Jim
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Old July 15, 2012, 09:11 AM   #68
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A neighbor had a Taurus raging bull in .454.
it locked up with less than 200 rounds through it, three trips back to Taurus still did not get it back to 100% reliable. He sold it for a heck of a loss.

There are so many other choices that are only slightly more expensive.
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Old July 15, 2012, 05:59 PM   #69
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Well, having just had a bad experience with a Taurus, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I have a model 851 revolver (a variant of the little 5-shot model 85) that is STELLAR. Very accurate and reliable as the sun. I have about 1850 rounds through it now.....with NOT ONE failure or malfunction, except by my fault. I tried lighter springs in the gun and got around 3 FTF's per hundred rounds. As well, lots of FTF's with the light springs AND CCI primers. But, NO problems of any kind with the standard springs. I trust the 851 at least as much as I trust my S&W's. It is my primary CC weapon now, until I get my auto-pistol issues solved.

I had, for a few months, a Taurus PT-845 (semi-auto in 45 acp). A good and reliable gun, especially considering the price.....at least for the 400 + rounds I put through it. But, not a good DA trigger (SA is fine). I can't comment about long-term reliability, but the gun is in the hands of a good friend. So, I will keep track of this.

Finally, a Taurus PT-145. Basically, IMO, a good design spoiled by poor execution (at least, the one I have). A major malfunction (a small broken part caused the gun to go full-auto). A loose, rattly slide and poor lockup, which seems to be getting worse. A loose ejector (riveted in place, but now loose). Now that I have converted the gun to DAO, I think it is safe and probably mostly reliable. But, IMO, it could have been constructed better. I don't think it is ultimately up to the hammering it gets from full-power 45 acp loads (but, it shoots quite low with lighter loads, so full-power loads are needed to get it to shoot to POA). 500+ rounds through it.....and I'm not sure it will make it past 2000. Frankly, for what you get with this one, it should sell for maybe $200-250 new (instead of $350 or more). Oddly enough though, I paid only $300 for my model 851 revolver, so go figure.
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Old July 15, 2012, 06:20 PM   #70
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Depending on the 'condition' of which can be discussed via skype, cell and pics etc. (nowadays it's not necessary to be local like 'back in the day'), if anyone of whom is seriously unhappy looking to sell a Taurus semi (not really a revolver guy relatively speaking), PM me and we can talk.

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Old July 22, 2012, 07:10 AM   #71
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I have owned two Taurus’s and both had problems. One had several. I still own the one because I like the gun so much (445) but I would never trust it.
Taurus basher, a term I find humorous, Taurus, hi-point fans seem to use it so often that it’s become part of the internet language so OK,2 things make me a Taurus basher.
First the 445, I’m not a gun smith so I had my friend (A great gun smith) repair it. I was there when he opened the side. I was dumb founded the amount of metal shavings and poor fitting parts that were in the gun. This was not from wear but crap left in during manufacturing process.
Second. Last year Taurus supplied the NRA for the “Rifleman” magazine two of their new models. I don’t remember which. Both guns had major failures. If a gun company supplies a gun to a major firearms writer for evaluation and you have a 100% failure rate then what is the remainder of their products like?
I found it funny that even with all the problems Rifleman still gave the guns a positive rating but if you get the magazine and read through it you won’t be surprised since the magazine is full of Taurus adds.
Tom Servo: I had similar experience as you. I worked in a large gun store in the 80’s and 90’s and although we didn’t carry Taurus. What I remember from that time is that when one came in for trade the owner of the store decided the value of all guns coming in. Taurus were never given more than 30 to 40% the cash value that he would give to like guns from Ruger or S&W. Autos he wouldn’t take at any price.
We also had a lot of people bring in guns that needed repair since we had a gun smith on hand that had a great reputation.
The only gun that came in in higher numbers than Taurus was the Backup 380. I know because the store owner kept records on all guns that came into the store for repair. I remember asking him why he didn’t take Taurus in on trade. He showed me his records.
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:06 AM   #72
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I work part time at a LGS which is part of a chain that is the country's #1 gun retailer. We carry the full Taurus line and I cringe every time someone buys one. I never tell them not to buy one, just point out that their quality control is severely lacking. I also say that when you get a good one they are fine guns; it's just getting a good one that's the problem.
Also - And I'm not lumping everyone in here but from what I see of Taurus buyers they are usually part of the lower economic class who just don't have the money to buy a higher quality gun so they buy Taurus even after knowing about their quality control problems.
Just my opinion here of course but we sell dozens of Taurus guns every month where I work and this is what I see.
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Old July 23, 2012, 03:15 PM   #73
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On paper Taurus does have some pretty tempting options for a gun buyer. The prices sure help, too. They are tempting, especially some of their revolvers (to me). But any research online is sure to set up lots of doubts. I know that many online complaints take on a life of their own and may not be always justified but in Taurus's case there just seem to be too many of them. The ones that really make me take notice are ones from dealers and gunsmiths who have much more experience with a large sample of the guns. When dealers stop selling them and gunsmiths don't want to work on them, there has to be a real problem there. The one quote that I remember is where a gunsmith said Taurus saves money by contracting out the quality control segment of the business to its customers. They'll fix it, but you find it and pay with the headaches for having to send it back. I've bought 10 guns covering most of the manufacturers and never had an issue yet with any of them. I'll keep saying no to Taurus and be glad I can afford to pay a couple hundred dollars more and buy something with a better reputation. Maybe some day I'll take the gamble and hope I get one of the 87% that are okay.
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Old July 23, 2012, 06:44 PM   #74
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I think that Pianoguy makes a good point. To add a bit to this:

Internet ratings of ANY product or device are always suspect - because you never know the true "agenda" (if any) of the writer. As well, complaints about any brand or model must be understood, from the context of the person making the complaint. Does he/ she know what they are talking about ? How much understanding do they really have as to what is "normal" operation of the gun....and therefore what is abnormal ? Does the complainer have a hidden agenda ? Etc., etc.

In respect to Taurus specifically, if you go to a certain Taurus-devoted website.....most all is rosy. The vast majority of users say that they've had very few or no problems whatsoever. But, I wonder. Do they have an agenda ? Is that site simply a "Taurus fanboy" site, so to speak ?

Yes, the "horror" stories have a life of their own - and that is likely part of the problem. SOME of the complaints are probably not justified - or made by those who have little knowledge or understanding. MOST Taurus guns are probably fine when they leave the factory. Unfortunately, no one wants to be the one (of however many) to get a "bad one". I've noticed that people are VERY touchy about gun reliability issues....probably more so than with other products. This makes sense, because one does not tend to depend on one's kitchen appliances for self-defense......but guns, yes.

The real problem for companies like Taurus, as I see it, is that once the bad perceptions/ stories are spread around, it is VERY hard to overcome them. Some people who've had ONE bad experience.....or have merely been TOLD of a bad experience by someone they trust....will NEVER consider a Taurus from that point forward. Some of us try to deal with these things on a case by case basis - one bad experience we don't allow to completely colour our judgement. Neither side is wrong - because it is a matter for personal judgement - completely up to the individual. Anyone who will spend his/her hard-earned money has an absolute right to be SURE of the purchase.

As for myself, based on my experiences with Taurus products.....I would consider buying one again. However, you better believe I would be VERY careful before laying my money on the counter (perhaps more so than with some other brands). If I had any doubts about a particular model or example, I'd pass it up. But, in NO way do I subscribe to the notion that "Tauruses are junk" or can't be trusted. That, for me, is taking a leap of judgement without enough facts. I DO believe that the vast majority of Taurus guns are probably fine - I don't see how they could stay in business (and grow as they have) if that were not true. I can say though, that, if I ever purchased another Taurus.....and had a really serious problem with it.....I MIGHT well avoid them in the future, simply on the theory of avoiding the potential hassle.
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Old July 24, 2012, 01:12 PM   #75
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I have several tarus handguns in my collection & they have been great.
I have a tarus 85 snub, 661 357 revolver , & another 38 caliber.
I bought them used & they were well kept & continue to be so under my ownership.
Anything will & can break from time to time , proper care is the key.
Most name brand items get bashed ie Fords, Chevy, Harley, Craftman .....
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