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Old June 25, 2012, 07:24 PM   #1
4V50 Gary
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Mr. Gatling's Terrible Marvel by Julia Keller

I bought it for $10.49 @ Costco today. It confirms Ben "Beast" Butler used the guns on some Rebs who were peacefully bartering with the Yanks. It's a small paperback that has a lot of pictures, endnotes, bibliography and an index. It mentions the post-Civil War career of the gun along with Custer, Buffalo Bill, Teddy Roosevelt, it's use in Africa by the British Army. I didn't see (or rather find) any mention of Gatling adapting his gun to be steam powered and electric power. The book is stronger on the story of Gatling than it is on the gun. Still, at a glance it appears very promising.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:39 PM   #2
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Not wanting to talk the book down because there are some fun facts and stories... And you just purchased the book and you are looking forward to reading it..

But I do not think the author is a very pro gun/military person dare I say and just some times I felt there were some back hand comments made in that direction..

Then the evil side of me comes out and then I kinda wonder how well researched some of the material is when they have a Bias.. And who knows when I read the book, maybe I was in a foul mood and put to much into things.


Now so as not to be just a complainer but to put something back..

2 real good books I have come across is

The Gatling Gun by Wahle & Toppel.. A great read, Also short and nice chapters perfect bathroom book, Lots of reprints of original letters and they throws some light on some of the Gatling gun Myths Like the camel gun in action on camels (Which I pray each night is true ... oh please let it be true)

Another

The Gatling Notebook by Huges.. At first this book put me back a bit because there is no real story in the book just detail facts about prices, Production numbers, Years of gun model introduction. Changes in models. Which at 1st is a tad dry but it has become a favored book because it assists you to track the changes in the Gatling and what was available in each year..


I think both books are out of print but they turn up on e-bay a lot and do not pay a lot for the 1st. some people will try to get a high price but a few get listed at cheaper prices..


By the way from what I have ever been able to find out the electric Gatling was just a wistful gleam in the in the 1890s of "Scientific American" and it will take the 1950s to come true...

Last edited by indy1919; June 26, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Old June 27, 2012, 09:52 AM   #3
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You will have to look long and hard to find a book that has no bias. That would be like reporters who have no bias. Could you report a war and not care which side wins?

Well, before I go off the deep end, let me ask a question about Gatling guns, since the subject has popped up and I will assume that readers who have an interest (unbiased or not) will read this thread.

Sometimes Gatling guns show up in movies. The War Wagon, which was a Keenan Wynn movie, is the only example I can think of right now. My question is, are those Gatling guns we see in the movies original?
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Old June 27, 2012, 10:27 AM   #4
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I got to handle and examine one at the James Julia auction in Maine last winter. Pretty impressive weapon.


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Old June 27, 2012, 11:14 AM   #5
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Bluetrain, That is a mell of a question..

Would SWAG it was original for war wagon, because there were few reproductions made at that time. In the 60s Surplus ones could be had fairly cheap for movie rent,, But That would be one heck of a cool research job to find out the Origin and now resting place of the "War Wagon's " Gatling

Heck in 1945 you could still buy them from Bannersman Sons

Was re-watching the War Wagon the other day when the evil rancher climbs up into the turret to fire the gun, Then they flash outside for the gun shooting up the fence scene. you will see there is no room to mount the magazine into the gun while into the turret..
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Old June 27, 2012, 11:21 AM   #6
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POhill Do you remember what the final Auction cost of that piece..?????
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Old June 27, 2012, 12:33 PM   #7
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Custer had access to Gatling guns before he left for The Little Big Horn, but chose to leave them behind. His reasoning was, they would slow him down. I believe he left 3 .45-70 Gatlings and some small artillery pieces behind when he left the fort.I don't know if it would have turned the results of the battle, but it couldn't have hurt. Also, right before he left for the Black Hills, and his demise, the 7th cavarly was issued the new single shot Springfield rifle, instead of the Spencers that they did have. That could've made a difference as well. But, as history shows, Custer was an accident waiting to happen.
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Old June 27, 2012, 03:00 PM   #8
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I'm trying to track down the selling price (if it did sell). James Julia's site seems to be down.
Here's some info on that gun.
http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/r...2-c-9e58811640
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Old June 27, 2012, 03:48 PM   #9
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MUCHO thanks Pohil.. this is nice.. A nice write up..

Thank God for Bannerman, with out that company there would have been a lot of lost Mil Surplus..
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Old June 27, 2012, 04:26 PM   #10
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It didn't sell. Estimated price was $85,000- $120,000.
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Old June 27, 2012, 09:10 PM   #11
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Good observation on The War Wagon. I haven't seen it in years.

BTW, back in the late '80s you could buy a full scale working replica for only $17,000.
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Old June 27, 2012, 11:33 PM   #12
Gary L. Griffiths
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Quote:
Would SWAG it was original for war wagon, because there were few reproductions made at that time. In the 60s Surplus ones could be had fairly cheap for movie rent,, But That would be one heck of a cool research job to find out the Origin and now resting place of the "War Wagon's " Gatling
IIRC, the "War Wagon" Gatling was an original 1874 Gatling, owned by a movie prop house specializing in firearms. It was, I believe, also used in "Rooster Cogburn" with John Wayne and Katherine Hepburn. I seem to recall it being sold several years ago, and that it was described as having the bores almost completely shot out from firing all the blanks in several movies.
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Old June 28, 2012, 04:44 AM   #13
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Thanks Gary for that memory... You know that does make sense about the damage to barrels. In remembering those movies they always have a sheet of flame going out of the barrel. And this is before the golden age of special effects. So to capture the flash they had to do it the old fashion way by overloading the blank. I remember reading some where that the wagon itself, was on display outside at universal studios for a while, but only being made of wood I can not imagine that lasted long.

It would be a fun job to figure out what the actual weight of the wagon would be if it was made out of armor plate.
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Old June 28, 2012, 05:01 AM   #14
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hey 4v 50 Gary.. There are a couple of fairly nice copies out there today. One I have seen up close and personal is made by a guy in Michigan.. Now is it not an exact one to one remake of a gatling gun, But is is a nice mix, but is a very afordable version. It does do a fair job of doing the firing chamber version (Safely) which was the 1st version of the gatling gun that Richard Gatling was building in Cincinnati before they were destroyed by Southern saboteurs.

http://www.batteryguncompany.com/Home.php
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Old June 28, 2012, 06:53 AM   #15
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Its not a 45.70 but I got the prints for making a .22 gatling I should get started on that.
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Old June 28, 2012, 01:51 PM   #16
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Gatling originally made the gun because he hated war!!! He thought it would shorten wars and lessen casullties. I wonder what he would think of the mini-gun in Warthog ground attack aircraft that use depleated uranium bullets. They destroyed more tanks in Iraq than Abrahams tanks did.
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Old June 28, 2012, 04:00 PM   #17
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$45,000 in Dixie Gun Works catalog

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...5988feda31f9fd
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:34 PM   #18
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Gatling info updates / corrections

Good Day-
I saw this thread and thought I would respond . . . although I too question Julia Kellers stories as being 100% accurate, I do know a bit about these and I'm impressed that many of her citations I can attest to.

Re other comments on this thread:

Yes, the War Wagon was an original Gatling, but not the same as Rooster Cogburns. Slow down the movies and note that COgburn's has a different front sight, and that there is a round bar soldered to the hopper in order to keep the magazines from falling out of the gun when the high angle shooting was done from the raft along the river. The Stembridge Co provided most of the weapons for the movies in those days, and through the Dirty Harry movies as well.

FYI, Rooster Cogburn's is indeed a model 1890, serial number 517. ( I am the happy owner of #513) Before I owned 513, it was in Rough Riders, Tremors 4, American Outlaw, and one or two others I can't recall at the moment . . . . and yes, if they are not taken care of, the black powder blanks can corrode the barrels. I shoot mine regularly with live rounds (handloaded by me only) and it works flawlessly. We regularly saw telephone poles in half with it (old ones we've salvaged from the power company of course ;-)
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Old July 23, 2012, 06:56 AM   #19
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If I recall correctly, Clark Brothers near Warrenton, Virginia, had a Gatling for a while several years back. I'm almost certain it was a reproduction chambered for .38 special but I never talked to anyone there about it. I just sort of stared at it with my mouth open. It wasn't that large and I think I saw an original full-sized Gatling in the museum at Ft. Sill, maybe Ft. Riley.

It is odd that Custer thought they would slow him down. But that opinion is based on the view of comparing them with mounted artillery pieces. Horse artillery always prided itself on being able to keep up with the cavalry, although they were sometimes prone to think they could really gallop if they didn't have those guns. I'm not all that well read on the subject but I believe that mountain artillery pieces were actually used in action against the Indians more than Gatling guns. But I identify rather more with artillery.
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Old July 23, 2012, 07:04 AM   #20
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I was watching "The Book of Eli" yesterday.

A Gatling gun features prominently in the big gunfight scene near the end of the movie.
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Old July 23, 2012, 07:05 AM   #21
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Others beat me to Rooster Cogburn, which combined a Gatling and Nitroglycerin to good effect.

Another movie with Gatlings would be The Last Samurai, where Gatlings wipe out the samurai faction.

Hey, wait, I forgot about The Internet Movie Firearm Database. For their listing of Gatling guns in movies: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Gatling_Gun

Quote:
Film
Title Actor Character Note Date
The Real Glory David Niven Lt. Terence McCool Model 1883 1939
The War Wagon Bruce Cabot Frank Pierce mounted in turret 1967
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly Union Army 1966
Guns of the Magnificent Seven Bernie Casey Cassie 1883 model 1969
The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid . Pinkertons . 1972
The Outlaw Josey Wales Union Army 1975
3:10 to Yuma (2007) cart gunners
Rooster Cogburn John Wayne Rooster Cogburn 1975
Rooster Cogburn Katharine Hepburn 1975
Two Mules for Sister Sara French Troops
Young Guns Union Army 1988
Batman Returns 1992
Bad Girls Madeleine Stowe Cody 1994
Nostromo 1996
Wild Wild West 1999
American Outlaws Union Army 2001
The Last Samurai Imperial Japanese Army Model 1874 2003
Van Helsing weapons tester 2004
Tremors 4: The Legend Begins Michael Gross Hiram Gummer 2004
The Book of Eli Carnegie's men 2010
Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows . Austrian Army Ammo fed from Broadwell drums 2011
It looks better on the linked page, as the quoted info was in a table that wouldn't copy over to this thread.
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Old July 26, 2012, 05:14 PM   #22
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Hey BlueTrain... Custer might have been right about them slowing him down. The exact ones ending up Slowing down Terrys column several times..
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Old July 26, 2012, 05:23 PM   #23
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Hey ideaworks76, welcome Now I do have to say that if you are chopping telephone poles in half, I think the only Christian thing to do is send a few photos, if not a u-tube..


So I am assuming that it is 45/70.. How many rounds does it take to cut through..??? Also did you rent the gun to the movie.. Any info on how that works...??? Do you baby sit with it during production.. Or do you just get it back after use????

Last edited by indy1919; July 26, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
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Old July 26, 2012, 05:53 PM   #24
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i had forgotten that the GAU-8 (Warthog cannon) was a Gatling gun. I had the privilege of working on the ammo when I was at the Old Honeywell.

Thanks for the memory.
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Old July 30, 2012, 08:33 AM   #25
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If Custer's column was slowed down by the gatlings, that may have saved his bacon. History is what it is.
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