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Old June 24, 2012, 04:14 PM   #51
SilentHitz
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Wow, you mean I've been carrying a untrustworthy gun for 40 years????? I'm lucky to be alive I guess. LOL
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Old June 24, 2012, 04:50 PM   #52
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Draw your own conclusions from my post SilentHitz.

I posted Larry Vicker's opinion for everyone's consideration.

Take a deep breath, relax and re-read my post.
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Old June 24, 2012, 05:10 PM   #53
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I understand the quote by Larry but i still don't consider it obsolete, JMO. It might require more maintenance but that doesn't necessarily make it unreliable, the m9 isn't the most reliable/maintenance free sidearm IIRC? I agree 100% with the fact that you might buy a 1911 and it need tuning. There in lies the problem of mass producing a 1911 and assembling versus hand fitting, filing, assuring proper fit, etc. again JMO. Just seems these days you really have to pay for a 1911 that's reliable, and i see where that is a downfall to everyone, when you can pick up a glock for 650$
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Old June 24, 2012, 05:16 PM   #54
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Untested by me - maybe, but only if it rattled.

I would trust most pistols if I personally had put a few hundred rounds through it w/o any issues.

BTW, only an idiot would trust a gun with their life strictly on a make/model basis.
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Old June 24, 2012, 05:44 PM   #55
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I have sold, repaired, customized and competed with 1911s for a number of years. I love to shoot them. It is truly one of the greatest designs we have. It is also become one of the most mass produced pistols around. Unfortunately we have so many makers building to a price point with very loose specs and poor quality control. I have seen more than a few 1911s fail in competition. I can still remember watching Rob Leatham's 1911 choke in a big money match. The look on his face was priceless. I am sure that no expense was spared on his gun. A 1911 "can" be built and tuned until it will cycle rounds reliably to the point that you will tire of shooting it before it fails but like any magazine fed gun there are so many little things that can cause it to fail. My carry gun? A S&W 696 L frame .44 Spl. revolver. I have several 1911s I would "almost" trust my life to but I simply have more faith in a revolver for serious business use.

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Old June 24, 2012, 06:39 PM   #56
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I think Mr. Vickers was being just a bit histrionic, but I do agree to some extent.

If I'm handed a 1911, I'm tearing it down, working out any rough spots, and running it through a pretty long breakdown with the ammo I plan on using with it.

I'm not nearly that anal about other service pistols.
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Old June 24, 2012, 09:18 PM   #57
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Shooting action pistol type events you see every type of gun used jam. One shooter uses nothing but Glocks - he's had feed problems during matches as well as running trouble free. My wife shoots an XDm - it refused to reset the trigger this past weekend because it got dirt wedged between the trigger transfer bar and the frame.

The majority of people where I shoot use 2011 style guns, and generally run the matches trouble free. I have SIGS, HKs, and 1911s - if you shoot enough - you will have a problem. The worst malfunction I ever had was with a S&W model 25-5 - so I'm not naive enough to believe revolvers always run 100% either.

The 1911 is a 100 year old design. It doesn't work like modern pistols designed for assembly line manufacture. If you don't want to put the work in to make a 1911 run reliably - don't get one. If you have a correctly built gun, run good magazines, and do very simple things in preventive maintenance - you can run as trouble free as any other design. You just have to accept going in - they take more work to run reliably.
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Old June 25, 2012, 07:17 AM   #58
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Quote:
The 1911 is a 100 year old design. It doesn't work like modern pistols designed for assembly line manufacture. If you don't want to put the work in to make a 1911 run reliably - don't get one. If you have a correctly built gun, run good magazines, and do very simple things in preventive maintenance - you can run as trouble free as any other design. You just have to accept going in - they take more work to run reliably.
Egg-zactly! A revolver can leave the factory rougher than a cob (I have an examples of those, all S&W's), and you can still get them to shoot, albeit with excessive force on double-action trigger. But if it is a 1911 (my Colt's), that went out the door with the same lack of attention to detail, you have stoppages and of course, "break-in periods".
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Old June 25, 2012, 08:24 AM   #59
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I put no stock at all in anything Larry Vickers has to say.

In my opinion he changes horses faster then the Pony Express.

Best Regards
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:07 AM   #60
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Yes...my first and ONLY handgun was a BHP...then moved to a Kimber Pro Carry in 1999 and it's been my main CCW weapon and "night stand gun" since. I have an assortment of others than get occasional use, but the 1911 is the platform I tend to prefer.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:10 AM   #61
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Yes. As with anything else, it depends on the gun and the gun is going to have to prove itself before I'll trust it. The first Glock 22 I was issued wouldn't get through a full magazine w/o choking at least twice. Turned out to be that particular magazine so it was an easy fix.

PS- I'm with you on Vickers, Bob.
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Old June 25, 2012, 07:10 PM   #62
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I've never had a single FTF or FTE with my Springfield TRP 1911. The gun is reliable and more accurate than I am and have no issue trusting my life to it. It has handled every type of ammo I've fed it without fail.
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Old June 25, 2012, 08:28 PM   #63
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I carried one in the Marines infantry. I've owned several and been able to fire numerous highly customized and factory models. I've seen probably more failures with 1911 models than any other, ok, maybe not Tauri! I know you can completely modify one to suit your needs at a cost. But to me it's not worth it when Hk, Glock, and Sig make fantastic shooting 45's that work out of the box. It's as simple as that. My answer would be "no" as a general rule. I base that on personal experiences. I'm sure there are some 100% perfectly running 1911's out there. If I had one that ran that way I'd consider it, but I've never owned one that didn't fail. For sentiment I love the 1911 but that's about it.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:01 PM   #64
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The one you have either works or it doesn't.

If it does, I have no problem carrying it...and that goes for any handgun regardless of model or brand name.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:30 PM   #65
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Funny I put another 150 flawless rounds of 230gr ball through my $350 RIA just last weekend. Go figure.

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Old June 26, 2012, 01:59 AM   #66
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If you take the time to read the article that was linked to above...

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gears...ur-first-1911/

I think you'll see what I saw, that the author of the article is only slightly familiar with the 1911 and that Vickers is selectively quoted. You can also note that no where does Vickers say that he would not carry a 1911 or not trust one as a self defense tool.

Vickers does say that if you are not willing to put time into learning the gun it may be best to look elsewhere. It also looks like what he considers a good 1911 (a good base gun with at least $1,000 of aftermarket work on it) may be a bit different from the opinion of many, many other shooters of 1911s.

Jeff Cooper said many times that all a 1911 needed to be an outstanding self defense gun was a good trigger job, sights that were useful and could be seen at speed, and that it be reliable. Nowdays those things are usually gotten off the shelf or for less than a grand of a gunsmiths work.

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Old June 26, 2012, 02:45 AM   #67
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Yes I would and I have.
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Old June 26, 2012, 08:13 AM   #68
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Old June 26, 2012, 08:36 AM   #69
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A gunsmith saying a 1911 needs a grand worth of gunsmithing to be reliable.
Sounds kinda like the American gem society saying you should spend 3 months salery on a diamond

I think every gun should have my personal $500 check out done PM me for instructions on where to send the check.
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Old June 26, 2012, 09:52 AM   #70
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Trust a 1911?

The design of that piece was fought and argued over for several years and the Army insisted that reliability was a criterion.

It is safe to say that the 1911 was trusted by millions over the years.

Unreliability begins when it is disassembled for 'improvement'.

My 1911 works fine and I'm not going to presume I can make it any better.
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Old June 26, 2012, 10:52 AM   #71
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Just as an aside, these are very interesting posts on another forum regarding 1911 magazines and their design, evolution and how they intergrate into the overall reliability of the 1911 platform. Fairly quick reading.

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?4...s-(part-1-of-3)

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?5...nalysis-Part-2

(part 3 is down the page title "ammo".)
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Old June 26, 2012, 11:08 AM   #72
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Randomly? No.

Mine? Yes, with FMJ.
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Old June 26, 2012, 11:14 AM   #73
tipoc
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Quote:
A gunsmith saying a 1911 needs a grand worth of gunsmithing to be reliable.
Sounds kinda like the American gem society saying you should spend 3 months salery on a diamond
I saw that too.

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Old June 26, 2012, 11:27 AM   #74
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Yes sir!
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Old June 26, 2012, 11:29 AM   #75
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the reliability of the 1911 has not just recently been called into question. it's been questioned ever since glocks uber bullet count torture test was conducted and the military replaced it with the M9(good choice to replace but bad gun to replace it with IMHO). the 1911 was a thing of beauty back in 1914 when many of the people issued them had never seen a gun that could fire more than 6 rounds and you didn't even have to cock the hammer after every shot. now they are more expensive than plastic guns, require much more custom fittings, many of the repairs have to be done at the factory or by an experienced gunsmith, they have the worst ammo capacity of any other semi auto handgun(unless you start getting into the pocket 45 genre), a lot of them can't feed hollow points, and they generally have to be cleaned and drowned in lube after every couple hundred rounds or they become jammomatics.

now with all that said, despite needing a good modernization to compete with the modern handguns out there, I would still trust my life to a 1911. your concealed carry/home defense gun should always be cleaned to begin with so the fouling issues should be no brainer. 45 ball ammo is plenty deadly to bad guy rifling through the knick knacks. in a self defense situation you are only going to get 1 or 2 good shots off with probably a 4 shot max so the 7 or 8 round capacity of a 1911 is more than enough.

so for a front lines fighter, no the 1911 is not the latest and greatest and far from the best choice but for a nightstand gun or concealed carry(for the guys who have figured out how) they are just fine.
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