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Old June 19, 2012, 06:47 PM   #26
oneounceload
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And as for "red dot" if I'm not mistaken I think what people are referring to is not a red dot scope, but a laser aiming system, throwing a red laser dot down range.

I can see that being a very effective way to engage a target, accurately, and very quickly.
Possibly, but if you are looking where your red beam is bouncing all over the place and not at the BG pointing his gun at you already - you are dead

When milliseconds counts, do you really want to be fumbling to make sure it is switched on and then that it is pointing at your intended targets? Your EYES are faster than anything when it comes to telling your brain what is happening and can result in your reactions being that much faster......how much? As long as it is faster than the BG, you are still alive

Try relying on your eyes and brains and not on gizmos and gadgets that can fail - like Murphy - at the wrong time
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Old June 19, 2012, 07:10 PM   #27
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Then we are back to the need to be darn sure you are aiming at what you want to hit in a SD situation when using 00Buck.

Hence, my point.

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Old June 19, 2012, 07:56 PM   #28
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Nope, we are back to proving that pointing your gun, using your index finger alongside the barrel, is the fastest way to bring the gun to bear...
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Old June 19, 2012, 08:36 PM   #29
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Ah...not really, but carry on.
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Old June 19, 2012, 09:35 PM   #30
shortwave
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Got another question for ya Amsdorf(even though you didn't answer the one about 'what choke you used in your vid':

Do you think you can shoulder a shotgun, aim and hit your target faster then someone can shoulder a shotgun,point and hit their target?
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Old June 19, 2012, 09:53 PM   #31
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You bet, with two hands tied behind my back.

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Old June 19, 2012, 10:14 PM   #32
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Much thanks for the earnest answer to an earnest question, Amsdorf.
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Old June 19, 2012, 10:17 PM   #33
Amsdorf
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Again...

You are assuming somebody pointing from the hip can actually put all the pellets from 00Buck into the target.

I think that is a risky assumption.

But, I repeat myself.
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Old June 19, 2012, 10:33 PM   #34
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You are assuming somebody pointing from the hip can actually put all the pellets from 00Buck into the target.
Wow!

Where in the world did you get the idea I was assuming anything about shooting from the hip from this...

....
Quote:
Do you think you can shoulder a shotgun, aim and hit your target faster then someone can shoulder a shotgun,point and hit their target?


Nothing in that question has or even hints of having anything to do with shooting from the hip.



Did you mis-read the question or are you intentionally evading it?
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Old June 19, 2012, 10:35 PM   #35
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You are assuming somebody pointing from the hip can actually put all the pellets from 00Buck into the target.
All the pellets? With your 00-buck, it only takes one!

Armsdorf, the more you try to make your point, the more it seems your experience with shotgunning is quite limited. At my club, there were members who could hit doubles, from Skeet's station-4 with their gun behind their back (or above their head). Many clubs have members who enjoy developing their dismounted shooting skills.
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Old June 19, 2012, 11:15 PM   #36
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Egads....

One pellet goes in bad guy the rest go..... where?

Through the wall, through the house, killiing or maiming loved ones in the house.

I'm sorry, you must be choosing to be obtuse. The point is you aim it in order to prevent pellets missing the intended target.

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Old June 19, 2012, 11:16 PM   #37
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And for the previous guy...if you are pointing it, you are aiming it.
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Old June 19, 2012, 11:23 PM   #38
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This could be an interesting grudge match. Say a healthy young stud like Amsdorf shooting against an inexperience point shooter like oneounceload, if they are located in the same part of the country.
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Old June 19, 2012, 11:48 PM   #39
shortwave
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From this answer...

Quote:
if you are pointing it, you are aiming it.
This...

Quote:
This could be an interesting grudge match. Say a healthy young stud like Amsdorf shooting against an inexperience point shooter like oneounceload, if they are located in the same part of the country.
...

...wouldn't take very long.

At any rate, at this point, given his above stated answer, I'm thinking the OP needs to learn a bit more basics about shotgunning before making many more shotgunning 'myth busting' video's....

....but I will say , with the likes of the experienced shotgunners that frequent this forum (oneounce,zippy,klawman, Lee Lapin, Slugo, BigJimP) just to mention a few, with the right attitude he's in the right place to learn.

Think I'll bow outta this one, sit back and see if I can learn a bit myself.

Thanks for the vid. OP.

Signed,

Previous Guy

Last edited by shortwave; June 20, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old June 20, 2012, 12:25 AM   #40
zippy13
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I'm sorry, you must be choosing to be obtuse. The point is you aim it in order to prevent pellets missing the intended target.
I'm not being obtuse, you're missing the point, I'll say again from my post #19: Is that really your reasoning? A simpler answer is to use smaller shot, and not rely on your perfect aim and fat BGs. How are you going to tell your neighbor, "Sorry, I hit your child, I was using 00-Buck and the BG ducked."? And, don't rely on the BG stopping your pellets. It's my experience, a 00-Buck pellet may still be lethal after passing a fleshy mass.

Two of the basic rules of gun handling are know your target and know your background. I've never heard of use your target as a bullet trap.
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Old June 20, 2012, 12:42 AM   #41
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And for the previous guy...if you are pointing it, you are aiming it.
Amsdork, you originally stated that you have to aim to hit a target, pointing won't work (at least for you). Now you're saying pointing is aiming. If that's now the case, then we can hit a target by pointing at it. You've just busted your own mythbust.

Last edited by zippy13; June 20, 2012 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old June 20, 2012, 01:59 AM   #42
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zippy13, with regard to smaller shot, three problems.

1) At close ranges, the shot pattern tends to act like a solid mass - IE, birdshot will blast through drywall really efficiently within a few yards. And the solid-like mass covers a small area. (Aim - or good pointing - counts.)

2) At further ranges, a lot more pellets are flying. Each is individually less destructive, but there are more of them to potentially miss the target and wreak havoc on family members. (Aim counts.)

3) At ranges where the shot pattern has spread enough to not blast through walls like a solid, the shot pattern has spread enough that pellets achieve individual (vs massed) penetration on the BG. (I'll stick with my low-recoil 00, thanks, and point or aim the gun.)
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Old June 20, 2012, 06:40 AM   #43
darkgael
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Pointing

About pointing.....
Simply doing a search on Google for Patrick Flanigan or Tom Knapp and watching the resulting videos should be enough to convince even the most close-minded that point shooting can be accurate (obviously with a lot of practice).
Not wanting to search? Here is a link to a Flanigan video of him breaking seven hand thrown clays with a pump gun "from the hip".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7xKNuxFI8

Pete
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Old June 20, 2012, 07:13 AM   #44
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The results may have been predictable, but I can't even count how many people I've met over the years who think hip shooting a shotgun, especially one with a pistol grip instead of a buttstock, is the easiest thing in the world.

I watched a jackass put three rounds into the ceiling at the range where I used to work before I could get onto the range to stop him. Young punk who thought he knew it all. When he popped off at me I booted him off the range and out of the store.

I regularly see people trying this at the ranges I go to, so obviously someone thinks its easy and this video would be something new for them.


Last thing I'll say is this. If you don't have something constructive and engaging to say, then you don't have any reason to be posting in this thread.

If you think a snide comment is constructive and engaging, I'll be MORE than happy to show you how it's not.
You can shoot shotgun on your range Mike? Are you talking hip shooting at skeet or something else?

I didn't know people who actually own shotguns and shoot them try hip shooting. Wow.
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Old June 20, 2012, 07:32 AM   #45
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"I didn't know people who actually own shotguns and shoot them try hip shooting."

My cousin and I tried hip shooting when we were kids 50 years ago and would camp out on his grandparents' farm or on my grandparents'. Of course we couldn't afford a lot of ammo to practice, but we bought all we could manage and shot every round. You know how some kids would steal cigarettes from their parents? We pilfered ammo.

What we did was use firecrackers and cherry bombs to launch tin cans off of a flat rock and shoot at them with .22 rifles and shotguns. We were lousy hip shots.

Both farms backed up on mountains, so we had safe backstops.

John
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Old June 20, 2012, 08:02 AM   #46
oneounceload
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And for the previous guy...if you are pointing it, you are aiming it.
Seems ironic you contradicted yourself......

Have a nice time making videos, but perhaps you should refrain from calling them Mybusters - the folks who own that copyright might not appreciate that; that is unless you go work for them.....
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Old June 20, 2012, 09:12 AM   #47
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I hate when people say "going hot"
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Old June 20, 2012, 09:20 AM   #48
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zippy13, with regard to smaller shot, three problems...
MLeake, your point is well made. I'm well aware of the discussions on the appropriate size for HD pellets, they continue ad nauseam. My concern is with Amsdork's assumption that his aiming techniques will keep all of his pellets in the BG and prevent any collateral damage. I find that absurd.
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Old June 20, 2012, 11:52 AM   #49
TheKlawMan
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If anyone wants to bust a myth, what about the one that goes "You don't have to worry about hitting innocents if you aim."
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Old June 20, 2012, 12:30 PM   #50
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TKM,
Bravo, my friend, I wish I'd thought to say that.
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